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Republican Leadership Kills Constitutional Carry Again in 2018
- Thread starter GuyRelford
- Start date
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Don't quit posting or go away. You serve a very valuable purpose here. Many of us here believe in the RKBA and we all talk amongst ourselves and I think we sometimes start to believe all gun owners have come around and believe just like we do. I young feller that used to post here called them gun butters. I believe in the RKBA but.... and they list why they aren't really for the RKBA.
Fudds, butters, and nutters...they're all a hazard to the 2A. The first 2 will purport to be your friend, up to a certain point. I gotta think many of our A rated legislators fall into one of these groups.
- Jan 12, 2012
- 27,286
- 113
Now that I have removed the harsh criticism of my original post, I would like to thank you openly for taking the time to research the subject-matter at hand. It isn't where we start in our journey but rather where we end up that makes the difference and I am very happy that we are moving in the same direction. The unfortunate truth is that we are in fact surrounded by dangerous enemies who hide behind the word 'reasonable' while endeavoring to be anything but reasonable. Life is a journey and I am pleased that we are making similar journeys in a similar direction!
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It blows my mind the rampant ignorance of Americans of not just 2nd amendment issues but the whole process of our Republic as a whole. Yet these people are always the first ones out waving a sign about something usually about an issue the socialist left is blowing out of proportion. Then when interviewed or asked why they are protesting or their possition on an issue they don't even know what they are talking about.
A lot of Americans are dumb blind sheep. And most of them are coming out of college
A lot of Americans are dumb blind sheep. And most of them are coming out of college
- Jan 12, 2012
- 27,286
- 113
Quoted because this is good enough it needs read twice.
In the purest of context I do not really believe you are my enemy.
I do believe that this issue is getting watered down by the endless attacks and rhetoric we face daily in the gun owner community. Know that I have been called out in the exact same manner when I rocked back on my heels. And rightfully so. It got me to re-focus and stand firm. Picking and choosing will not get us anywhere.
Just so you and many others that feel as you do know......the douche bags are already packing heavy. They could give a rats butt about the law. They do not care.
That is why comments like the ones we are mentioning (You and GlockRiver) are a bit ridiculous. Reality is what we need here.
I meant no direct attack on you just the mind set. I grow weary as do so many others. I will say we need to band together is this. All of us.
Crusader17
Marksman
well this is all I've thought about all morning now
I'll be honest and say I haven't, but now I will, do some quality research on the subject. I do understand what you're saying, I get it. (Sure my comment makes it sound like I don't)
churchmouse, I appreciate the clarification, thanks!
IndyDave....I'll continue to research and think about this post. In the meantime don't hate me please.
I'll be honest and say I haven't, but now I will, do some quality research on the subject. I do understand what you're saying, I get it. (Sure my comment makes it sound like I don't)
churchmouse, I appreciate the clarification, thanks!
IndyDave....I'll continue to research and think about this post. In the meantime don't hate me please.
- Jan 12, 2012
- 27,286
- 113
Fair enough. I am going to suggest you start with the difference between a republic and a democracy, focusing on the fact that a republic is a limited government in which the government has authority to exercise only the power granted to it by the people in the Constitution. A democracy, by contrast, is unlimited government which defaults to tyranny by 51% vote. I would also emphasize that the premise that the government grants rights is upside down. Again, the prevailing trend toward ignoring the Constitution notwithstanding, legally, it is the instrument by which the people grant authority to the government, which in turn does NOT grant us anything because it is to serve us, we don't serve it. One of the better historic affirmations of this is Alexander Hamilton's opposition to the Bill of Rights. His position was that the first ten amendments were superfluous since the Constitution did not grant the government any authority whatsoever to commit the abuses specifically prohibited by the amendments. Thankfully, the other side won the day! At any rate, when you look at it through this lens, you will come to see that any such restrictions as are now prevalent are unconstitutional and are contrary to both the notion of a free society and the concept of rights as opposed to conditional and revocable privileges.
HubertGummer
Master
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Trigger Time again."
Very well said, you are exactly right. People take all of our freedoms and liberty for granted and its just sickening how willingly they will give them up.
Don't go away, don't give up, but be willing to learn. I would be inclined to think your opinions have been conditioned by the loudest voices in the room, in other words the media, with what they are willing to report and how their personal opinions will lead them to do so. I will admit I had a period of detox coming into the community, but I've always been ready to review myself. I for one object for example to the prohibition of convicted felons from RKBA. If you've done your time and the justice system sees fit to release you, it should be without condition. If you're still a scrotumneck, pretty soon you'll get crosswise of either the law or a good guy with a gun. However, let someone commit a crime before punishing him for it.
We are all in this together.
As I mentioned I was called out in a far more visceral manner for some silly notions I had a while back that made me look like a progressive in some ways. OMG how could that have possibly happened. PM's/in thread you name it. As with you it made me re-address what I was thinking and why. Am I all better now.......you betcha.....
saddlegunfan
Plinker
Whatever makes the most $$ gets the most votes. As long as no special interests are offended on social media. Smh
You average slightly more than one post per year, but you summed things up very well in two sentences.
Gun owners are not just more "vocal"... we tend to be more vocal at the "voting booth".
Too bad not enough. He's probably safe.
A problem is that while there are many, many gun-owning voters, I remain unconvinced that a majority of them truly support the individual right to keep and bear arms. If all gun owners truly supported the right, the domination at the voting booth would be unprecedented and unstoppable.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I sit here unsurprised.
If you go to your search engine right now and search for "Indiana gun rights group" or whatever similar collection of words you like you'll come up with really nothing of the sort.
There's the ISPRA, which seems to be much more along the line of education and some legislative updates but not geared what-so ever towards changing the laws or a marshaling yard for action.
Then you find INGO. Again, from the view here in my armchair INGO isn't set up to be a serious force for legislative changes. It's not a political organization. We come here to read and discuss, and have a but of fun sharpening our internet sarcasm, and have "Coke vs Pepsi" debates. All of that is just fine. I'm not calling for INGO to change or do anything.
Then you come across National organizations. The NRA, GOA, SAF, JPFO. All of which barely cooperate and rarely agree as to what needs to be done and focus on National issues. Most of them pick their state level fights very carefully. I have rather unpopular opinions of them all in my circles, but that's a whole different thread.
My point here is that there is no real Indiana based gun rights organization we can throw support behind. There is no central rallying point. No one trustworthy Paul Revere that signals the call to arms, so to speak. Anyone interested in furthering our rights in Indiana is stuck with doing their own research and acting independently.
What I am suggesting, but not volunteering for, is an organization such as that. An Indiana centralized watchdog and change organization that can show numbers and bring pressure on politicians. This is not an easy thing.
I'll tell you why I am not volunteering for this. I was deeply involved in Ohio trying to get concealed carry passed. The movement gathered momentum in the late 90's and we fought like Hell to get a lousy bill full of poison pills passed by 2004. No one walked away from that happy and every year since then there is another push to fix some idiotic facet of that odious original bill.
What is required is a central and tight knit core of directors willing to devote their lives to making small and frustratingly small changes in a more and more clearly corrupt system. You'll need grassroots volunteers dedicated to spending their time and treasure to manning tables, printing flyers, researching issues, and having endless political arguments with people at gun shows about how to proceed and what is right. You'll need meetings. You'll need a website. You'll need rules regulating said website that are probably going to tick off a third of the people that visit it. You'll need tech support. You'll need a cadre of attorneys, some of whom will be willing to do Pro Bono work. Some will not.
THEEENNNNN, you're going to need money to run it all. So, here comes the need to sell memberships and have volunteers to be in charge of the money and keeping track of everyone that is current on their dues. You'll need a lot of stamps too.
My friends, it's a huge pain. It's also the only thing that might get something done. We don't have enough natural born believers in a pure expression and understanding of the Second Amendment in Indiana to count on Constitutional carry coming about naturally by virtue of electing Hoosiers based on party line alone.
I care about Constitutional carry happening. I think Indiana enacting CC will be one more domino falling in a sea change of general acceptance of our natural rights as Americans and Hoosiers (transplants included) to go about our business armed for our own safety without malice for our fellow man. May we all live to see it be a right extended to the entire country.
When I moved here I found Indiana to be a quite gun friendly and easy to navigate environment. Anyone reading this from Ohio, Illinois, or even worse New York or New Jersey understands my meaning. There's a really short list of things that need changed to make this state a veritable utopia for gun owners. That also means there's going to be a lot less for a rights organization to complain about and justify it's existence. There may not be much for it to feed on.
One last thought to anyone feeling froggy and thinking, "YEAH! That's me! I will start this organization". Read through these pages carefully and without bias. You will discover that organizing the general population of gun owners is more difficult than herding cats. You will have to be able to get the tin hat crowd to walk beside the near sellout RINO types just to get enough numbers to have any effect.
I'm too old, and way too burned out on activism.
Chris
If you go to your search engine right now and search for "Indiana gun rights group" or whatever similar collection of words you like you'll come up with really nothing of the sort.
There's the ISPRA, which seems to be much more along the line of education and some legislative updates but not geared what-so ever towards changing the laws or a marshaling yard for action.
Then you find INGO. Again, from the view here in my armchair INGO isn't set up to be a serious force for legislative changes. It's not a political organization. We come here to read and discuss, and have a but of fun sharpening our internet sarcasm, and have "Coke vs Pepsi" debates. All of that is just fine. I'm not calling for INGO to change or do anything.
Then you come across National organizations. The NRA, GOA, SAF, JPFO. All of which barely cooperate and rarely agree as to what needs to be done and focus on National issues. Most of them pick their state level fights very carefully. I have rather unpopular opinions of them all in my circles, but that's a whole different thread.
My point here is that there is no real Indiana based gun rights organization we can throw support behind. There is no central rallying point. No one trustworthy Paul Revere that signals the call to arms, so to speak. Anyone interested in furthering our rights in Indiana is stuck with doing their own research and acting independently.
What I am suggesting, but not volunteering for, is an organization such as that. An Indiana centralized watchdog and change organization that can show numbers and bring pressure on politicians. This is not an easy thing.
I'll tell you why I am not volunteering for this. I was deeply involved in Ohio trying to get concealed carry passed. The movement gathered momentum in the late 90's and we fought like Hell to get a lousy bill full of poison pills passed by 2004. No one walked away from that happy and every year since then there is another push to fix some idiotic facet of that odious original bill.
What is required is a central and tight knit core of directors willing to devote their lives to making small and frustratingly small changes in a more and more clearly corrupt system. You'll need grassroots volunteers dedicated to spending their time and treasure to manning tables, printing flyers, researching issues, and having endless political arguments with people at gun shows about how to proceed and what is right. You'll need meetings. You'll need a website. You'll need rules regulating said website that are probably going to tick off a third of the people that visit it. You'll need tech support. You'll need a cadre of attorneys, some of whom will be willing to do Pro Bono work. Some will not.
THEEENNNNN, you're going to need money to run it all. So, here comes the need to sell memberships and have volunteers to be in charge of the money and keeping track of everyone that is current on their dues. You'll need a lot of stamps too.
My friends, it's a huge pain. It's also the only thing that might get something done. We don't have enough natural born believers in a pure expression and understanding of the Second Amendment in Indiana to count on Constitutional carry coming about naturally by virtue of electing Hoosiers based on party line alone.
I care about Constitutional carry happening. I think Indiana enacting CC will be one more domino falling in a sea change of general acceptance of our natural rights as Americans and Hoosiers (transplants included) to go about our business armed for our own safety without malice for our fellow man. May we all live to see it be a right extended to the entire country.
When I moved here I found Indiana to be a quite gun friendly and easy to navigate environment. Anyone reading this from Ohio, Illinois, or even worse New York or New Jersey understands my meaning. There's a really short list of things that need changed to make this state a veritable utopia for gun owners. That also means there's going to be a lot less for a rights organization to complain about and justify it's existence. There may not be much for it to feed on.
One last thought to anyone feeling froggy and thinking, "YEAH! That's me! I will start this organization". Read through these pages carefully and without bias. You will discover that organizing the general population of gun owners is more difficult than herding cats. You will have to be able to get the tin hat crowd to walk beside the near sellout RINO types just to get enough numbers to have any effect.
I'm too old, and way too burned out on activism.
Chris
There is that also.
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