Six Medical Products Every Gun Owner Needs

[Sylvain]

Can’t ship CATs because they are .mil issue and most likely ITAR controlled? Same with Qwik Clot and other hemostatic agents. Just my guess.

Maybe because those products have a NSM?

 

[obijohn]

Medical Training has always bored me to tears that being said you guys spent a lot of tax money on me.
We were trained by senior Medics,DR’s,PA’s we had to run IV’s on each other do the nasal airways on each other ect.
This training was intergrated into all the other training never knew when you might have to do needle decompression on a dummy ect.
The formal courses were 40 to 80 hours I would think that would cost some big$$ in the civilian world?
I guess what am asking is what level of training would be required for just you average guy without being a lawsuit nightmare?
Joniki brought up a good point !

BTW if I have a sucking chest wound any of you have my permission to treat it!

won't need to dart you then, will we?

In any case, if you believe the gear useful, bring it along. Someone like Brad69 or Shibumiseeker might come along and be able to utilize the gear. Better than me hauling the med ruck along with all my own gear? You carrying the ruck for me.

 

[shibumiseeker]

I would think Joe Citizen inserting King airways and doing pleural decompression's could cost someone dearly in a law suit. Hemostatic gauze and powders out date rather quickly (we do not carry them on an ambulance).

Some common sense and a little innovation goes a long way.

It really depends and is largely an untested area of the Goood Samaritan laws. If I, as a trained and certified professional, go beyond my training and licensure, I am wide open for liability. But a civilian who once took a class, or taught themselves, isn't held to the same standard and is more of a grey area that is likely to be tested in court if there is a negative outcome. The only reason I mentioned NVAs is because something like a King is easier to learn amd harder to screw up.

To the person who later in the thread indicated that a needle decomp is better than the collapsed lung, or as risk free as starting an IV: the risks of puncturing the heart and causing pericardial tamponade, or hitting one of the arteries in the outer chest and causing more bleeding into the pleural space is significant. It is very rare that a needle decomp is going to make that critical few minutes difference and the risk of screwing it up is higher. Moreover, recognizing the need for needle decomp is trickier than it seems. Paramedics who are trained extensively in it more often than not do it when it is not required. Hence, why I spoke up.

I'm all for people getting training and saving lives, but folks need to be aware than while some things are pretty simple and effective, other things are not nearly as easy or safe as it seems when watching a youtube video of a trained professional doing them.

 

[Sylvain]

It really depends and is largely an untested area of the Goood Samaritan laws. If I, as a trained and certified professional, go beyond my training and licensure, I am wide open for liability. But a civilian who once took a class, or taught themselves, isn't held to the same standard and is more of a grey area that is likely to be tested in court if there is a negative outcome. The only reason I mentioned NVAs is because something like a King is easier to learn amd harder to screw up.

To the person who later in the thread indicated that a needle decomp is better than the collapsed lung, or as risk free as starting an IV: the risks of puncturing the heart and causing pericardial tamponade, or hitting one of the arteries in the outer chest and causing more bleeding into the pleural space is significant. It is very rare that a needle decomp is going to make that critical few minutes difference and the risk of screwing it up is higher. Moreover, recognizing the need for needle decomp is trickier than it seems. Paramedics who are trained extensively in it more often than not do it when it is not required. Hence, why I spoke up.

I'm all for people getting training and saving lives, but folks need to be aware than while some things are pretty simple and effective, other things are not nearly as easy or safe as it seems when watching a youtube video of a trained professional doing them.

If you live in America in a city where emergency medical services are working properly you will not need to dart someone at the scene, ever.
Even a surgeon who happens to witness someone with a tension pneumothorax at the mall will want to transport the patient to the nearest ER where they can use X-rays to really make sure it's a pneumothorax.

Blindly stabbing someone with a needle when you're 4 to 6 minutes away from the nearest hospital is stupid and dangerous.

Even overseas in the field a corpsman will most likely not perform a decompression unless they can listen to lung sounds.
I'm not sure how many non-EMS folks carry a stethoscope with their needle.

Soldiers carry a decompression needle in their IFAK because there might not be any hospital in the country where they are deployed.
Or the nearest field hospital is hours away.

As a civilian in the US a tension pneummothorax is not as life threatening as if it happened on top of an Afghan mountain.

 

[Vigilant]

You guys are no fun, some of us just wanna stab needles into chests, no matter the symptoms/wounds? What better practice than a live target? That’s a nasty cough you got there, here, lemme try this chest dart! Apply purple liberally.

 

[2A_Tom]

I personally do not have the training to use a needle, except for my insulin, so I do not have or want one. I do have chest seals in my EDC bag. My first training on sucking chest wounds was totally directed to improvised methods, so I feel I have that covered.

Tourniquets and pressure bandages I have and know how to apply. Improvising these from available materials is a no brainer.

 

[rhino]

Please look for an exit wound first don’t want you to go through all that work for nothing!

Well said.

So, what you're suggesting is, that actually assessing the person to check for what is wrong with them is actually a good thing? Who knew?

And practicing starting IVs on your buddies is just good, clean fun. Especially when they forget to apply pressure when they're withdrawing the needle from the catheter part. Seeing your own blood pouring out is cool!! Well, for a short time, anyway.

 

[shibumiseeker]

And practicing starting IVs on your buddies is just good, clean fun. Especially when they forget to apply pressure when they're withdrawing the needle from the catheter part. Seeing your own blood pouring out is cool!! Well, for a short time, anyway.

I was at a restaurant the other day when someone asked if anyone knew CPR. I said that I did, and the rest of the alphabet. Everyone laughed, well except this one guy.

 

[Joniki]

It really depends and is largely an untested area of the Goood Samaritan laws. If I, as a trained and certified professional, go beyond my training and licensure, I am wide open for liability. But a civilian who once took a class, or taught themselves, isn't held to the same standard and is more of a grey area that is likely to be tested in court if there is a negative outcome. The only reason I mentioned NVAs is because something like a King is easier to learn amd harder to screw up.

To the person who later in the thread indicated that a needle decomp is better than the collapsed lung, or as risk free as starting an IV: the risks of puncturing the heart and causing pericardial tamponade, or hitting one of the arteries in the outer chest and causing more bleeding into the pleural space is significant. It is very rare that a needle decomp is going to make that critical few minutes difference and the risk of screwing it up is higher. Moreover, recognizing the need for needle decomp is trickier than it seems. Paramedics who are trained extensively in it more often than not do it when it is not required. Hence, why I spoke up.

I'm all for people getting training and saving lives, but folks need to be aware than while some things are pretty simple and effective, other things are not nearly as easy or safe as it seems when watching a youtube video of a trained professional doing them.

Agreed...

There is a thing called practicing medicine without a license.

 

[rhino]

I was at a restaurant the other day when someone asked if anyone knew CPR. I said that I did, and the rest of the alphabet. Everyone laughed, well except this one guy.

I'm usually that guy, but on purpose in order to create an awkward moment that I can laugh about later.

 

[Double T]

If you live in America in a city where emergency medical services are working properly you will not need to dart someone at the scene, ever.
Even a surgeon who happens to witness someone with a tension pneumothorax at the mall will want to transport the patient to the nearest ER where they can use X-rays to really make sure it's a pneumothorax.

Blindly stabbing someone with a needle when you're 4 to 6 minutes away from the nearest hospital is stupid and dangerous.

Even overseas in the field a corpsman will most likely not perform a decompression unless they can listen to lung sounds.
I'm not sure how many non-EMS folks carry a stethoscope with their needle.

Soldiers carry a decompression needle in their IFAK because there might not be any hospital in the country where they are deployed.
Or the nearest field hospital is hours away.

As a civilian in the US a tension pneummothorax is not as life threatening as if it happened on top of an Afghan mountain.

I tend to disagree. Any sort of change in pressure in the thorax can be seriously life threatening. Hemothorax or pneumo. All that stuff can shift pressure and cut off the airway quite easily. Typically they'll insert a chest tube, not needle decompression though.

 

[STEEL CORE]

I kinda wonder, how anybody survived in Texas in 1880 ?!?

 

[Skullglide]

I'm stuck on rhino with gorilla tape.

 

[Trigger Time]

Dump the pressure dressings for more gauze to pack the wound with.

Before the crying starts, yes they have their place but if we are treating a gunshot wound or multiple, good luck with the pressure dressings. They rarely give you what you seek. Bullet holes never happen where you want them to for easy bandage and tournaquet application. Wanna stop that bleeding as best as possible and fast? Pack that sob

 

[Sylvain]

I tend to disagree. Any sort of change in pressure in the thorax can be seriously life threatening. Hemothorax or pneumo. All that stuff can shift pressure and cut off the airway quite easily. Typically they'll insert a chest tube, not needle decompression though.

I was just saying that a tension pneumothorax does not become life threatening as fast as severe bleeding for example.
You have more time to treat it if you detect it early.
Not like bleeding where you might just have 30 seconds to stop someone from bleeding to death.

That's still serious and life threatening but you usually have time to bring the patient to the ER.
Some people with a collapsed lung can drive themselves to the ER and they can still breath with their second lung.

But anyway that's not something your regular non-medical professional is going to treat at the scene with a needle.

Like it has been said already if most jurisdictions it's considered practicing medicine without a licence whenever you introduce a foreign object past the skin (needle decompression, wound packing, guedel airway etc).

In most situation as a non-medical professional you want to stick to tourniquets, chest seals, direct pressure and CPR.And other non-invasive procedures.

Even off duty paramedics, who are therefore not operating under the direct supervision of a physician, might want to stick to basic non-invasive procedures.

 

[hpclayto]

People are seriously EDC'ing decompression needles?

 

[Joniki]

People are seriously EDC'ing decompression needles?

Apparently....

 

[bkflyer]

I carry a lot of stuff I can't use. My wife is a NP at Meth ER.

 

[357 Terms]

?


You guys live in a combat zone?

I carry a j-frame and sometimes a 1911!!

I worked at a gun range for a few years, we needed bandaids every once in a while, if anything serious happened (never did) we were told to call 911, you know, professionals....?

 

[KellyinAvon]

I kinda wonder, how anybody survived in Texas in 1880 ?!?

No one who lived in 1880 has survived I do what you mean, ask anyone who grew up on a farm. Life can be dangerous even with no bad guys for miles.