The unofficial Churches should not be tax exempt thread.

[PaulF]

So if I donate a box of canned goods to my church pantry, you want the government to get a cut before any goes to the poor?

You are free to give those groceries to a familiy in need yourself and cut out any institutional open hand.

Edit: And no...monies and goods collected for charitble purposes could be tax-exempt instead of rebatable in my ficticous and ideoligical example.

 

[femurphy77]

 

[churchmouse]

You are free to give those groceries to a familiy in need yourself and cut out any institutional open hand.

Edit: And no...monies and goods collected for charitble purposes could be tax-exempt instead of rebatable in my ficticous and ideoligical example.

Food/clothing pantries are a staple in the poor areas.
It is a collection/distribution sight to the needy.
But you already know this I am sure just

It is a buffer between folks.

 

[churchmouse]

No worries. Everyone can state an opinion and be good when they do it.

 

[femurphy77]

No worries. Everyone can state an opinion and be good when they do it.

Yeah. . . I'm thinking bigger picture though, remember when we met in a parking lot one time. I'll leave it there.

 

[churchmouse]

Yeah. . . I'm thinking bigger picture though, remember when we met in a parking lot one time. I'll leave it there.

Now that you mention it yes...…

 

[Expat]

Yeah, no. The wife is a better person than I. She used to take excess garden stuff and deliver directly to people she wanted to help up in town. I will not. I will drop stuff off to the church or all the churches in the area support a place in town that feeds the homeless, etc. and I will drop stuff off there. So we need to get rid of those places or they need to hire an accountant to monitor their donations to pay their taxes.

 

[Ingomike]

Most of us agree what the Second Amendment says...

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Why would we read the First Amendment differently?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

By my reading taxation would prohibit the FREE exercise thereof...

 

[Ingomike]

So basically, a license to make money with no governmental obligation? Got it. Oh, and I know what it means, as I also know a bunch of non-profits are scams to make money for the founders (Clinton Foundation anyone).

With an admission that I first brought up non-profits other than churches, any discussion of the Clinton foundation is a completely different conversation than the original post asking about taxing churches...

 

[churchmouse]

Most of us agree what the Second Amendment says...

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Why would we read the First Amendment differently?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

By my reading taxation would prohibit the FREE exercise thereof...

Very solid point.

 

[CampingJosh]

I think, like any individual, that churches should be taxed on the income they collect. I also think churches (and other service-based non-profits) should be able to deduct their charitble expenses at a 100% rate.

Tax the money if is collected to help yourself (or your organization), allow a big deduction for money collected (and spent) helping others.

...that's just, like, my opinion though...man.

The problem is that nearly none of the money that flows into a church is transactional. It's donations. Businesses pay taxes on their profits, not on gross revenue. How do you determine what is profit when people give?

It's legal for people to voluntarily pool their money without then paying taxes on the pool. So any income tax on a church would be discriminatory against religious people.

Churches just get the same tax exemptions that other civic organizations get. The local conservation club doesn't have to pay property tax. The Boys & Girls Club doesn't have to pay sales tax on their supplies.

Again, taxing churches would be a clear violation of the First Amendment unless every civic group and charity was also taxed. And doing that would be a very bad idea.

 

[Jludo]

Most of us agree what the Second Amendment says...

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Why would we read the First Amendment differently?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

By my reading taxation would prohibit the FREE exercise thereof...

My reading of that would be that by giving special tax exempt status to religions you're making a law respecting the establishment of religion.

 

[Ingomike]

My reading of that would be that by giving special tax exempt status to religions you're making a law respecting the establishment of religion.

Congress is "giving" nothing.

Taxation simply prohibits the FREE exercise thereof.

 

[Ingomike]

Again, taxing churches would be a clear violation of the First Amendment unless every civic group and charity was also taxed. And doing that would be a very bad idea.

I would agree that government can tax civic groups and charity, but religion is specifically mentioned to be free, I believe that includes free from taxation...

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Really? I give money to an organization that assists battered women and children, you are saying they should pay taxes on the money I give them? Political parties should pay taxes on contributions? Boys and girls clubs should pay taxes? Scouts? How about a neighborhood HOA? Non-profit organizations should not be taxed...

Sure. Why not? Look, either income taxes are constitutional and should be equally applied to all or none. As mentioned above, those exemptions come with chains. I know of a few churches that do not take the exemption. Because they don’t want to be governed by the rules that go with it.

 

[Flash-hider]

So, if you get your wish of repealing religious entities as non-profits, then how would you react to doing away with the tax exempt status of Gun Rights organizations like GOA, SAF, etc.? The way I see it is if one falls, all will eventually fall. And just because something doesn't operate the way you like shouldn't be a reason to tax it to extract a penalty, where your energy should actually be directed to is the elimination of the 100+ year theft that has been going on.

 

[Jludo]

Congress is "giving" nothing.

Taxation simply prohibits the FREE exercise thereof.

I pay income tax, does that mean I don't freely exercise any of my rights?
Taxing a church property isn't in any way prohibiting a religion from existing.
In the context most relevant to us and reading the new testament you don't even get the impression Jesus had in mind the kind of 'church' as we now think of it.

 

[Ingomike]

Sure. Why not? Look, either income taxes are constitutional and should be equally applied to all or none. As mentioned above, those exemptions come with chains. I know of a few churches that do not take the exemption. Because they don’t want to be governed by the rules that go with it.

Not sure exactly what rules that church's must follow to maintain their tax exempt status you are talking about. I only know of one, they cannot be political and endorse specific candidates, and run political campaigns for candidates.

They can distribute voter guides etc. and even get very close to candidates but just not be a non-profit campaign for a candidate. If you noticed I used the word candidate a lot, that is because they can get very political on issues.

Constitutionally government can do very little to tax or control religion...

 

[Jludo]

I would agree that government can tax civic groups and charity, but religion is specifically mentioned to be free, I believe that includes free from taxation...

Being able to freely excercise a religion isn't put in any jeopardy by having to pay property taxes on your church property. Unless you're saying exercising religion inherently requires special religious monuments built and maintained.

 

[jamil]

The correct answer is yes and no. And bacon. The money that goes into community service should be tax exempt. The money collected for upkeep of the church/clubhouse should be tax exempt. Only for-profit money should be taxed. And of course any .org that uses its resources for political messages should forfeit their tax exemptions.

Many churches would be completely tax exempt. The plastic Baptist church in Mississippi I listened to on the radio one Sunday morning in early-mid 2000s, which said that not voting Republican is a sin, should lose its tax exemption. They’re probably still at it.

So yes. If you want tax exemption for your church, synagogue, mosque, or temple, there are strings attached. You can’t just say or do just anything. Accept the tax exemption, pay the price, which looks something like generic religion.