Thoughts on capacity

[COOPADUP]

That’s not how springs work. The more they are compressed and released repeatedly the faster they wear out. A mag fully loaded that just sits there will not wear out any faster than a mag that’s 2/3 loaded and just sits there.

I completely agree with this. An empty mag is a useless mag.
Keep all my mags loaded up and never had any issues.

 

[STEEL CORE]

If someone's engaging you and yours, with an AK system, I hope and pray one shot would be all I would need to take them out, but I will hopefully have at least ten more rounds for them to worry about, if I don't.

 

[Skullglide]

Although I carry an LCR on occasion, my preferred set up is Glock 43X and two extra mags or Glock Mdl 45 with two spare mags. The availability of extra rounds is fine with me.

 

[Usmccookie]

That’s not how springs work. The more they are compressed and released repeatedly the faster they wear out. A mag fully loaded that just sits there will not wear out any faster than a mag that’s 2/3 loaded and just sits there.

Beat me to it.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

My first reaction to the Walmart shooting was that I needed to start carrying more ammo. Then, as I thought it through, I realized that if I chose to go head to head with a guy with an AK/AR using a pistol, the matter would be decided in 3 rounds, if that. Either I made my shot or died trying.

Not necessarily.

Although that's true in most cases of self defense due to the close range, it may NOT be the case in a mass shooter event. Here, you have something more closely resembling combat. A bad guy with a semi-automatic, magazine fed rifle (mass shooters seldom chose a handgun) in an urban setting.

IF you chose to confront him, you will be armed with a weapon of limited power, and range. You will need to maneuver to a good position to engage. You'll need cover. You'll need to be in his path waiting for him to come to you (think ambush) or pass you by. You may have to engage him... while you watch him engage some scared screaming innocent.

There may also be more than one shooter. (think Mumbai, God forbid)


One thing I learned in 3 combat tours... You can NEVER have too much ammo. Gunfights are scary as hell. Unless you're very close, and very good, you're gonna miss, a lot more than you hit. (at least I did) My number of rounds expended was high, my number of bad guys I got was low... You need ammo.

The only reason I am as comfy with my 1911 as with my G17 is how well it fits my hand, how well I shoot with it, and I carry 2 extra mags. Still, I'd rather the capacity of the Glock every time, AND it's ability to mount a light. This is why it gets carry duty 90% of the time.

Just because I'm comfy with 8+1, and 2 spare 8 rd mags, doesn't mean I don't prefer, 17+1, and 2 x 17 rd spares...

 

[Lt Scott 14]

Former LEO here: We changed from S&W M66 357 mag Service Revolvers to Glock 22's after seeing the Bank Of America Shootout. Bad guys, in armor, shot up a bunch of police officers with AKs, during a robbery. True, they mostly had Beretta 92s, but the AKs were rocking the battle. (Miami shootout also showed many hicap mags used vs FBI Agents)
Moral of the story: More ammo has never been a losing battle. Hence, hi capacity mags are on most all Police Officers Duty belts. Not knocking 1911s (I own one too), but in harms way, prefer a 15-17 rd mag, and reloads. Even on a Security detail, guards are carrying hi caps, and reloads. Its not getting any better out there. Always carry extra mag(s) and practice.
My J Frame is in my pocket for a milk/bread run, but a G19 is on my hip. Not paranoid, just prepared. Good Luck.

 

[gregkl]

Something that is valuable about this forum and engaging in the threads is the differing views that members provide. At least for me, more than on one occasion my mindset has been changed.

This thread definitely has me thinking.

 

[88E30M50]

Something that is valuable about this forum and engaging in the threads is the differing views that members provide. At least for me, more than on one occasion my mindset has been changed.

This thread definitely has me thinking.

Same here. That’s why I started this one. Not to evangelize my personal beliefs but to hear what others are thinking. There are a lot of good perspectives and info in here so far.

 

[Spike Jones 5 2002]

That’s not how springs work. The more they are compressed and released repeatedly the faster they wear out. A mag fully loaded that just sits there will not wear out any faster than a mag that’s 2/3 loaded and just sits there.

I would not depend life on your theory.
Compress anything for an extended amount of time and it will lose it strength.
The more you compress it the faster it will weaken.
YES even 2/3 mag capacity.

I might retract my statement.
I was not with the understanding the question was about going to war.
I thought it was about personal protection carry.

 

[Usmccookie]

I would not depend life on your theory.
Compress anything for an extended amount of time and it will lose it strength.
The more you compress it the faster it will weaken.
YES even 2/3rd.

I might retract my statement.
I was not with the understanding the question was about going to war.
I thought it was about personal protection carry.

Its the movement of the spring that wears it down.

... in following your theory, you don't carry with one in the chamber as to not compress the striker spring. Then you would have 2 or 3 rounds in the mag, and would still need to load a round during a confrontation.
My theory would be, in high stress situations, 3 rounds is a warm up in an engagement even with training. The more manipulations you need to do in said situation, creates greater chance for sharing it up. I'd rather depend my life on more ammo, and used mag spring versus weak critical spring in my gun. Either way, I se the spring agreement as a mute one.
Of course this is just my opinion.

 

[nakinate]

I would not depend life on your theory.
Compress anything for an extended amount of time and it will lose it strength.
The more you compress it the faster it will weaken.
YES even 2/3rd.

I might retract my statement.
I was not with the understanding the question was about going to war.
I thought it was about personal protection carry.

It’s not a theory. It’s been proven over the years to be true.

 

[Expat]

I seem to remember someone even posting a metallurgical study on the forum some years ago on the subject of springs.
It showed that they weaken from use, not being compressed. As I recall there was some weakening but it was nearly insignificant.

 

[Scouse]

It was proved that working the spring (useing it) weakend it. Carried the Glock19 Gen 4, for years. Till I bought the Glock 43X. 10 plus one of 9mm 147g Federal hst. Plus a spare mag. So slim, and light.

 

[Spike Jones 5 2002]

Well I will stand alone and continue my belief.

 

[Expat]

Found this:

[FONT=&quot]The government Springfield Armory did a study on long term storage of magazines: Springfield Armory. SA-TR11-2643 Evaluation of Pretreatment Processes And Long-Term Storage On Magazine Spring For The M14, 7.62MM, Rifle. Springfield, MA: February 01, 1966.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]From M14 Rifle History and Development Third Edition:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"The question often arises as to whether or not a compression spring will take a permanent set if compressed to the minimum length and held over time, e.g., a fully loaded magazine or the bolt is held open. Coil springs can be designed to compress to solid height or length without taking a permanent set. The solid height of a compression spring is the length of the spring when fully compressed. If a permanent set is not desired, the spring material and diameter is chosen so that the torsional stress when compressed solid does not exceed approximately 40 % of the material minimum tensile strength. The minimum tensile strength, or yield strength, will vary with the diameter of the wire, e.g., 231,000 to 399,000 psi for ASTM A228 music wire. A permanent set occurs when the compression spring is compressed beyond its elastic limit and does not return to the original length. This results in a shorter free length but more significantly, lower spring force.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]M14 magazine springs were tested and inspected to ensure they would not take a permanent set. Magazine springs selected for inspection were compressed to a height of 11/16 ", essentially compressed solid height, three times then examined for compliance with USGI drawing C7267078. This included meeting the free length requirement of 13 " – 2 ". A permanent set in a USGI M14 rifle compression spring is not formed when compressed to the minimum length and left indefinitely."[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]and[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"Springfield Armory performed an evaluation of M14 magazine springs in the 1960s. The effects of long-term storage and repeated cycling of magazine spring were studied. The specified load (spring force) for the USGI M14 magazine spring is 5.5 pounds + 0.75 pounds at a compressed length of 5.5 " (unloaded magazine). However, the Springfield Armory tests found that the M14 magazine spring will perform satisfactorily at a load as low as 4.5 pounds force at 5.5 " length.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In the Springfield Armory study, three USGI M14 magazine springs were placed into a vertical shaper for a gymnastication test. Each spring was cycled at a rate of 116 strokes per minute. The spring force was measured after so many cycles, 5, 55, 655, 1,655, etc. After 6,655 cycles, the spring force at 5.5 " long were 6.1, 6.1 and 5.75 pounds each. The load, or force, of each spring was checked again after 10,000 cycles. The results were 5.1, 5.75 and 3.9 pounds at 5.5 " length. One spring measured 5.25 pounds at 5.5 " length even after 12,000 cycles. The springs were found badly distorted at 10,000, 12,000 and 14,751 cycles, respectively.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In another part of the spring evaluation, ten magazines were stored loaded for five years. After the first week in storage, the magazine spring force was found to range from 5.1 to 5.6 pounds at 5.5 " length. After five years of loaded storage, the same ten magazines were test fired with six loadings (120 rounds per magazine). The magazines were then disassembled and the spring force measured. The results were 4.6 to 4.75 pounds for length of 5.5 ". There was no malfunction of any magazine.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Unloaded magazines were tested as well for the effects of long-term storage. Ten magazines were stored unloaded for five years. After the first week in storage, the force for each spring ranged from 8.3 to 8.8 pounds at 5.5 ". After five years, the same ten magazines were loaded and fired six times each (120 rounds per magazine). The force for each spring was then measured. The results ranged from 5.0 to 5.25 pounds at 5.5 " length. There was no malfunction of any magazine."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]_________________[/FONT]

 

[88E30M50]

I seem to remember someone even posting a metallurgical study on the forum some years ago on the subject of springs.
It showed that they weaken from use, not being compressed. As I recall there was some weakening but it was nearly insignificant.

That's my understanding as well. Dynamic load of the metal is what fatigues it, not static load. There will possibly be a 'set' taken by a compressed spring but like Expat says, it's not significant to the function of the spring rate.

 

[Abominator]

Double digits deter deviant deeds. 10rds min.

 

[SchwansManDan]

What I am carrying and how I carry is largely dictated by how I am dressed. In a perfect world, 16 in the mag + 1 in the pipe + a spare mag with another 16.

If I need something that just disappears in a pocket, it's 6 + 1 + another 6.

 

[ashby koss]

With a degree in Mechanical engineering. It is FACT that dynamic loading fatigues springs NOT static loading.

IF you really want the long version proof, I can but I feel I’d need to be paid for the amount of time, research, math, physics, and work I would have to do to fully prove a law of physics and metallurgy. LAW not THEORY.

 

[700 LTR 223]

What drives your choice in carry capacity and spares?

What I can carry that is very easily concealed and comfortable to carry is the criteria I use when choosing a EDC handgun. For me that size range maxes out with a Smith Shield , Glock 43 or SIG P365. Sometimes I carry guns smaller still like a LCP II or Smith Airweight.