US Gov sues L3 (EOTech) for fraud

[sig1473]

If you are dropping $500+ on a RDS that was marketed as something it was not, then no, they are certainly not "solid".

^Exactly. I experienced serious battery drain with a 516 on my Colt 6940 which serves as my HD carbine. I replaced it with a T1. I actually like the Eotech's reticle more then the AimPoint's. I just have zero trust in it now and no one when will persuade me otherwise. They advertised themselves as something they were not in terms of durability and performance. I will give them the benefit of the doubt by excepting the consequence of their actions with providing refunds. That is almost unheard of in this day and age with a company having accountability.

 

[Prometheus]

My two exps's have been solid, what I want to know is what has eotech done to fix this problem? I would love a aimpoint if the sight picture was as big, can't stand the little toilet paper roll.

It's an inherent design flaw to their entire HWS. It has to be redesigned from the ground up, it isn't a QC issue or a 'handfull slipped through' type of thing. It's each and every one. It can't be 'fixed' like you are imagining.

They knew since 2007 the design flaws and never did anything to fix them. They buried the data and kept selling them for 7 years. Read the filings. They are scathing.

IMO the reason for the refunds are two fold, first because there is no way they could win a class action suit. Knowingly selling a defective product for 7 years... you can't defend against that.

Second, they are trying to salvage their brand. They sell more than than just HWS, their entire portfolio is tainted because of this. "making it right" is cheaper than a class action, and everyone gets their money back vs a $50 check from a settlement and a handful of lawyers buying a small country with the rest of it.

There are, to me anyway, some unanswered questions as well.

1- Why do some of their optics eat batteries and identical optics have stated battery life?
2- Why is it some screens delaminate in months vs years?
3- Why do some leak in months vs years?



I have no idea. I have one of the XPS2's that eat batteries. It's like the sight never turns off, even if the reticle is off. It chews through batteries just sitting around in the house.

While I haven't noticed any thermal shifting (and they all will, it's inherent to the design), I'm returning mine so I don't have to deal with the battery issues any more.

Like others, I love the 1moa dot and 65 MOA ring. Couple that with the wide field of view and it's awesome... until it's not. Personally I spend that $500 on a RDS I intend to be able to use it for a life and death situation. Since I can no longer trust it, or even trust it will turn on because it may have eaten another battery, it's useless to me for it's intended purpose.

 

[Trigger Time]

I've had my 512 for about 8 years without a single hiccup. Stored in the trunk of my car. I guess I'm lucky, I'll keep it.

Yep. I never had an issue with any I've owned and actualy used on more than a range. I'm with you Denny I'm keeping my 512's. Stay safe

 

[atvdave]

My two exps's have been solid, what I want to know is what has eotech done to fix this problem? I would love a aimpoint if the sight picture was as big, can't stand the little toilet paper roll.

I'm with you on the aimpoints. I don't use my EXPS2 for combat, if I need to protect myself I'll use one of my hand guns either on my person, or very close to my bed. I only use my AR's when I'm target shooting, and not in "life or death" situations.

If I was to replace it, what would I replace it with that has a full field view like the EOTech's? The only problem I have wit it is the battery life which is a minor inconvenience.

 

[maxipum]

considering returning my 512, just wondering if any other optics would be compatible with my larue lt110?

 

[Trigger Time]

In the military you replace your batteries after every patrol anyways so battery life isn't a big deal.

 

[mikefraz]

In the military you replace your batteries after every patrol anyways so battery life isn't a big deal.

While that may be true, most Jack and Jill civilian don't go on many patrols/tactical missions, so there's a very real chance that the battery could have died since the last time they went to the range. The battery being dead when you try to turn it on in the middle of the night could end up being a pretty big deal.

 

[M67]

Regardless, the more I think about it, I'll probably send mine in. I was planning on testing the MOA shift when it gets freezing cold this winter but at the end of the day it still doesn't track well and this would be a great opportunity to get a refund to experiment with the MRO, something I've wanted to do since I first saw it. Plus my luck the return Eotech is offering will last for only a short time.

 

[tradertator]

When you say doesn't track well, do you mean that you are turn the elevation and windage screws accordingly for your shot? Not saying you shouldn't, just not something I thought people did with a red dot. I know the half dozen Aimpoint's I have don't track well either, as well as my ACOG that requires you to tap the sides of the housing to move the reticle.

 

[SMiller]

I have NEVER understood the stupidity when it comes to battery's on the EoTech, it flashes when it is getting dead and the damn thing last like a year between changes, is it that hard to change the battery twice a year?

I am still super bummed to hear of this issue as no other optic I have used has been as fast on target with its huge window.

 

[M67]

When you say doesn't track well, do you mean that you are turn the elevation and windage screws accordingly for your shot? Not saying you shouldn't, just not something I thought people did with a red dot. I know the half dozen Aimpoint's I have don't track well either, as well as my ACOG that requires you to tap the sides of the housing to move the reticle.

The dot is inconstant with the adjustment. I turn the dial to move the dot say 5 MOA, and it only moves 2. I make adjustments again, and it jumps to twice the desired amount. Took/takes forever to get it zeroed. I don't make on the fly adjustments with it, just when I go to sight it in, it's a PITA cause the adjustments are inconsistent per click. Not sure if "track" is the best word, but it was the one that came to mind.

I too have an ACOG that doesn't move well according to the 1/2 MOA per click that is advertised, but at least it's consistent with its error. Funny you mention the tapping thing, sometimes that helps mine too.

 

[tradertator]

The dot is inconstant with the adjustment. I turn the dial to move the dot say 5 MOA, and it only moves 2. I make adjustments again, and it jumps to twice the desired amount. Took/takes forever to get it zeroed. I don't make on the fly adjustments with it, just when I go to sight it in, it's a PITA cause the adjustments are inconsistent per click. Not sure if "track" is the best word, but it was the one that came to mind.

I too have an ACOG that doesn't move well according to the 1/2 MOA per click that is advertised, but at least it's consistent with its error. Funny you mention the tapping thing, sometimes that helps mine too.

Gotcha. That's been pretty consistent with my experience (for the most part) with most red dots, and it is annoying. Sometimes they seem like they are more consistent than others, but rarely have I had one that tracked anything near to that of a quality long range scope.

As far as tapping on the side of an ACOG, that's actually what the military manuals says to do which is pretty ghetto. Just like putting tape over the fiber optic tube to limit light exposure, and peeling it back accordingly The good thing is it works though, and it's about the toughest damn magnified optic on the planet. I'd kind of like to swap out a few of my red dots for them honestly.

 

[SMiller]

While that may be true, most Jack and Jill civilian don't go on many patrols/tactical missions, so there's a very real chance that the battery could have died since the last time they went to the range. The battery being dead when you try to turn it on in the middle of the night could end up being a pretty big deal.

That's not even possible, have you even owned one? When you power the unit up it will flash several times indicating the battery is getting low, at that point the unit works as normal and at some point thereafter you swap battery's.

The unit does not just stop working as you suggest...



I use a MOE grip with the 2 123 battery storage that goes in the grip, no reason not to have a couple extra battery's for optic or flash light.

 

[cyprant]

Thank you every one for this. Literally took 10 minutes to fill out the return authorization form and receive an email back stating my full refund was approved. I put my actual price paid in the comments plus tax, (less than msrp). Seriously took less than 10 minutes to get approval. Will be sending it back today. (HHS2 combo with magnIfier)

 

[Clay]

how do you figure out what you paid? I've got an XPS2 and an XPS3 that I've had for a few years, and I don't know how much they were, other than they weren't cheap!

 

[cop car]

how do you figure out what you paid? I've got an XPS2 and an XPS3 that I've had for a few years, and I don't know how much they were, other than they weren't cheap!

my understanding is that they refund the MSRP plus $15 s and h for you to send it back to them.

 

[Prometheus]

That's not even possible, have you even owned one? When you power the unit up it will flash several times indicating the battery is getting low, at that point the unit works as normal and at some point thereafter you swap battery's.

That's how it is SUPPOSED to work.

The unit does not just stop working as you suggest...

Actually it can and does happen, as he described.

It's happened to me once. My XPS2 eats batteries and I came back to mine after a month on that particular occasion and the battery was a dead as a door nail. I only run fresh quality batteries, either surefire or steamlight. I've tried both in my XPS2. It's like the power is on all the time, even if the dot isn't illuminated. That's the main reason I'm returning mine. I've got a buddy who bought during the same sale/rebate period I did, his functions as advertised on battery life. Seems the battery issue is hit or miss.

I use a MOE grip with the 2 123 battery storage that goes in the grip, no reason not to have a couple extra battery's for optic or flash light.

As do I but if you grab your rifle and the optic's dead, will the bad guy honor a "time out" while you swap batteries? Even a 30 second time out?

 

[cbhausen]

I'm with you on the aimpoints. I don't use my EXPS2 for combat, if I need to protect myself I'll use one of my hand guns either on my person, or very close to my bed. I only use my AR's when I'm target shooting, and not in "life or death" situations.

If I was to replace it, what would I replace it with that has a full field view like the EOTech's? The only problem I have wit it is the battery life which is a minor inconvenience.

Meprolight Tru-Dot RDS or RDS Pro. Huge FoV, 15,000 hour battery life, and Israeli battle-proven.

 

[SMiller]

Did some digging today and it seems the refund time is extremely long and guys are saying they are getting L1 vouchers that are good for 365 days, no actual refund!

 

[Clay]

what is an L1 voucher?