You Can't Tap Out In The Street

[Coach]

The Biggest Lie in Jiu Jitsu

I think this speaks volumes to the question about how worthwhile the time and money spent in martial arts are for those training to combat violent crime. My personal experiences are well outside of the styles in the article but they are consistent with what the article covers.

Why are there weight classes in boxing and wrestling? Because size and strength make a huge difference.
Why do coaches want offensive lineman to be a big as possible. See statement above.

Women trying to go toe to toe is a losing bet almost all of the time.

 

[Coach]

There is a saying in CMA (Oh, geez, stop it, Freeman, there's a saying in CMA for everything): "one power defeats 10 techniques".

I have trained alongside a few women. Some became highly proficient and a handful were terrifying (Dr. Yang's daughter and Master Chung's two daughters still induce fear shudders). How they train is again up to the instructor.

I have a teacher who does not discriminate or show favoritism and trains his females students harder than the males, especially at first. Look for the teacher, not the technique.

I am not looking for a teacher. I am looking to further the discussion on how well martial arts works out for combating violent crime and especially for women. Because I think there is a disservice done for women in this area as far as building false confidence. I think there are many viable reasons for this type of training but I think any belief that it is equipping women to fight and save themselves is unfortunate.

For example,I have a colleague that believe she could take me in a fight. She is wrong.

 

[Jackson]

For example,I have a colleague that believe she could take me in a fight. She is wrong.

This sounds interesting. What makes her think so?

 

[Tactically Fat]

I am not looking for a teacher. I am looking to further the discussion on how well martial arts works out for combating violent crime and especially for women. Because I think there is a disservice done for women in this area as far as building false confidence. I think there are many viable reasons for this type of training but I think any belief that it is equipping women to fight and save themselves is unfortunate.

For example,I have a colleague that believe she could take me in a fight. She is wrong.

Perhaps it should be more of a "teach women how to mitigate the circumstances of an attack to the point where one can capitalize on the opportunities given".

 

[rhino]

A lot of people who cling to the mistaken notion that size and strength either "don't matter" in the presence of good technique or can always be overcome with good technique have never encountered someone who is incredibly strong physically.

When I was competing in powerlifting, in 1991 I was approaching being able to do a 227.5 kg (500.5 lb) bench press in competition (drug free). I got injured to the point of not being able to train for the sport anymore, but at the time of my injury I could do 215 kg (473 lb), but I had not yet done it in a meet so it doesn't really count. Anyway, what I could do was beyond the physical limits of the majority of adult human males, even if they took performance-enhancing drugs, but that's not my real point. My real point is, there were beasts in my gym back then that made me seem weak by comparison and today it's even more so. Most people have no comprehension what it's like to have someone like that pushing on you, grabbing you, or hitting you. They have no experience that would let them gauge it.

Fortunately there aren't a lot of people like that and most of them don't have much interest in attacking people. But consider predators who have, say, 35% of their physical ability, just a little technique, and some experience hurting people who are resisting for real. Most highly trained men are not going to survive an encounter without some kind of advantage and a lot of luck and the number of women who could is vanishingly small.

Strength and size absolutely matter. Can technique make a difference? It can help (sometimes a lot), but at some point if the disparity in physical ability is too great, the conclusion is foregone. The author of that article cedartop shared used the example of a human vs a gorilla, but a more relatable comparison would be between a small child and a healthy adult. That level of disparity does exist between different segments of the adult population, especially when it's man vs. woman.

I think people should still train and practice if they want, but at the same time should keep a realistic perception of their capabilities and avoid believing that what they're doing will always carry them through intact.

 

[Coach]

This sounds interesting. What makes her think so?

She wants it to be true. She is angry that she was not born with a penis. A lack of wisdom and knowledge. Mistakenly taken polite behavior for a lack of ability. She knows how to dislodge eye balls and has had a couple of self defense classes for women.

 

[Coach]

Perhaps it should be more of a "teach women how to mitigate the circumstances of an attack to the point where one can capitalize on the opportunities given".

I think that would be better. But as Rhino has posted it has to be realistic.

 

[Jackson]

She wants it to be true. She is angry that she was not born with a penis. A lack of wisdom and knowledge. Mistakenly taken polite behavior for a lack of ability. She knows how to dislodge eye balls and has had a couple of self defense classes for women.

Anyone I would recognize?

 

[churchmouse]

She wants it to be true. She is angry that she was not born with a penis. A lack of wisdom and knowledge. Mistakenly taken polite behavior for a lack of ability. She knows how to dislodge eye balls and has had a couple of self defense classes for women.

I think I know her. Might be a different face and name but yeah.....I know her.

 

[hoosierdaddy1976]

Rhino's discussing the discrepancy between children and adults reminded me of a video I'd seen. While there isn't the age difference, it still goes to show how much of an advantage size and strength can be, vein when faced with good form and technique.

[video=youtube_share;GY24T3Ljmo0]http://youtu.be/GY24T3Ljmo0[/video]

 

[rhino]

Rhino's discussing the discrepancy between children and adults reminded me of a video I'd seen. While there isn't the age difference, it still goes to show how much of an advantage size and strength can be, vein when faced with good form and technique.

I couldn't run like that, but that was a modern version of me when I was in grade school playing football on the playground. None of the other kids could tackle me, even in teams. I used to score a touchdown almost very time I caught the ball, frequently carrying and dragging several kids with me.

 

[hoosierdaddy1976]

I couldn't run like that, but that was a modern version of me when I was in grade school playing football on the playground. None of the other kids could tackle me, even in teams. I used to score a touchdown almost very time I caught the ball, frequently carrying and dragging several kids with me.

Yeah, I was never that fast either, but I was that kid, too.

 

[bwframe]

...I have a colleague that believe she could take me in a fight. She is wrong.

Let's make this happen. Video please.

------------------------------------

As a father of adult daughters and a granddaughter, I firmly agree with Coaches thought process on this. In our PC efforts to "empower women" and give them them due credit for all they do and are, we go beyond realistic in some areas. This is certainly one along with the much argued "let her pick it out," on uneducated defensive weapon choices.

 

[CraigAPS]

So... Martial Arts are not a good place to spend training time and dollars?

Like Kirk has stated, look for a good teacher. I only studied for a couple years, but I still have a lot from what I learned. My sensei works at the hospital here, and he had trained at least two police officers who helped with the training. So, he saw what violence does. Be it empty hand or with weapons. He trained us to think about these things, to be aware of surroundings. There were sports only aspects and defensive use only aspects to the way we trained. Just like firearms instructors who urge you not to pull your gun and fire except as an absolute last resort and, if it's just a mugging, give them what they want, we were taught the same. It was very realty based thanks to the officers helping teach us. Yes, we trained in traditional kata and did sports oriented sparring, but so much more was added in. My sensei would often ask, "what's the best strike?" The answer being "the one that works." He urged us, even at the beginning, if we were to train in another style, to bring back what we had learned and share it. So, what did I get for my time and money? A defensive mindset, a load of confidence, a good basis of situational awareness, techniques and tactics. Things I can use in my self-defense with or without a firearm. More tools in the toolbox, so to speak. To echo Kirk again, find a good teacher. Even if there is a certain style you've always wanted to learn. Make an appointment with the instructor who teaches that style. Talk to him/her. Ask about the values and attitudes they try to instill in their students. Watch a couple classes. Talk with the students. I know when I was training, my friends would often comment on how I carried myself with much more confidence and how I would perform certain actions "differently" from the way others performed them (stepping over a baby gate comes to mind. Apparently, I stepped over it in such a way as not to lose my balance, and my friend noted that it was different from the way he just stepped over it like he was walking. IDK). Many of the benefits from martial arts training aren't always overt, and you may not even notice them, but others will, including those who may look to do you harm.

 

[Coach]

I think I know her. Might be a different face and name but yeah.....I know her.

There are a million of them out there.

 

[turnandshoot4]

What percentage of men who would have the disposition to attack women can be defeated by a well trained women in martial arts?

I humbly submit to you this.
Seattle Runner Fights Off Her Attacker: 'Not Today, ************! - BUST

 

[Coach]

I humbly submit to you this.
Seattle Runner Fights Off Her Attacker: 'Not Today, Mother****er! - BUST

What percentage end like this? And good for her.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Too often the training world gets wrapped up in wanting to be able to fight, shoot, stab the best guy in the room. After all, we have to train because there is someone out there that can kill us. The siverback gorilla example. Problem is the siverback gorilla is a rare guy to come across. Even more rare if they know how to fight instead of throwing haymakers and putting people in head locks.

Furthermore, everyone wants to debate what "style" will get the most usefulness for self defense and the answer is all of them. Each has their own purpose, when paired with size, strength, and righteous indignation they are hard to stop.

What would everyone have women/small men do instead of train? Female police officers kick a ton of ass, all the time. Do they win every fight? Of course not, but neither does the middle line backer that joined the force.

Does anyone know who Tony Antonucci is? He is one of the few that got away from Gacy. How you ask? He was much smaller, had been handcuffed, and was in Gacy's home but still got away! He was able to wrestle the proverbial silverback gorilla, get the cuffs off, cuff Gacy, and escape. As a wrestler he picked up something the other 33 boys didn't, cunning. If wrestling, something not mentioned in any of this thread as a good self defense tool, can get someone through this mess, can't most of them?

Thispast spring we had a young guy (6-2, 165) come into my ER stabbed in the chest. I heard that the person who stabbed him had come in for a lab draw so I wanted to check this out. What I found was a man in his late 50's, 5-8, and 135lbs. I literally looked at him and thought, "You are who I am training for?" The answer is no, I'm training for me.

I train because I want to keep my family safe.
I train because I want to get home at night.
I train because it is fun.
I train because it keeps me in shape.
I train because what the heck else am I going to do, sit on INGO?

Thanks for reading my ramble.

 

[turnandshoot4]

What percentage end like this? And good for her.

You get raped 100% of the time you don't fight back.

 

[churchmouse]

What percentage end like this? And good for her.

Is the attacker up to speed physically. Is his adrenaline maxed out. Is he fully involved and seriously going to bring down his pray.
Pray put up a good fight. Predator see's error in choosing this pray. Retreats after a few well landed blows to soft areas.