You Can't Tap Out In The Street

[Jackson]

Does anyone know who Tony Antonucci is? He is one of the few that got away from Gacy. How you ask? He was much smaller, had been handcuffed, and was in Gacy's home but still got away! He was able to wrestle the proverbial silverback gorilla, get the cuffs off, cuff Gacy, and escape. As a wrestler he picked up something the other 33 boys didn't, cunning. If wrestling, something not mentioned in any of this thread as a good self defense tool, can get someone through this mess, can't most of them?

Wrestling is a martial art.

 

[Fargo]

I humbly submit to you this.
Seattle Runner Fights Off Her Attacker: 'Not Today, Mother****er! - BUST

Fighting to escape and fighting to win the fight are very different things. As I said above, females have a WAY better chance when fighting to disengage or when trained to use a force multiplier. Training to stand and throw or dominate on the ground is a really low percentage proposition.

 

[Coach]

You get raped 100% of the time you don't fight back.

Not if they never get a hold of her. Too bad she did not access a pistol and end it.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

If wrestling, something not mentioned in any of this thread as a good self defense tool, can get someone through this mess, can't most of them?

Um, I mentioned wrestling several times. Both separately and included in the four methods of boxing.

What do you think Shuai jiao, Ditangqinna shr, Newaza and BJJ are?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Fighting to escape and fighting to win the fight are very different things. As I said above, females have a WAY better chance when fighting to disengage or when trained to use a force multiplier. Training to stand and throw or dominate on the ground is a really low percentage proposition.

That is true of old men like me too!

I fight to egress, with vigor.

 

[turnandshoot4]

"Qin na" means "seize and control". It is joint locks, take downs, wrestling of the Four Methods of Boxing: hitting, kicking, throwing and wrestling (qin na is here and in throwing).

Qin Na is considered "anti-wrestling" in most styles. The bigger systems White Crane, Eagle Claw, Praying Mantis (all cousins), Long Fist, Choi Li Fut, etc. all have heavy emphasis on throwing, qin na as they are enormous systems. Systems such as Wing Chun do not emphasis qin na (it is there, not stressed).

If White Crane or Praying Mantis is a symphony, then Wing Chun is a Ramones song. Mantis has 60 hand forms (including 3 man forms), 18 weapons, wrestling, throwing, etc. Wing Chun has 3 hand forms and 2 weapons (we have the tripodial, the mook, and the plum flower steps, which are cool but just training aids).

Wrestling is common within CMA systems, how much emphasis it receives depends on the teacher. Hitting and kicking is usually done first. The Indianapolis Mantis school teaches qin na separately from boxing as their teacher is an instructor under Yang Jwing-Ming.

I don't know that Tony had any exposure to those martial arts, as high school wrestling is more common.

If you are advocating high school style wrestling as a martial art and way to defend oneself, ok I'd have to agree.

 

[Coach]

Um, I mentioned wrestling several times. Both separately and included in the four methods of boxing.

What do you think Shuai jiao, Ditangqinna shr, Newaza and BJJ are?

BJJ and wrestling are not the same thing at all different goals, different styles and such. Only in a very large sense are they the same thing. Oil and water are both liquids. That is about how I see BJJ and wrestling.

 

[Fargo]

That is true of old men like me too!

I fight to egress, with vigor.

As I constantly beat into my son's heads:

-No matter how good you get, there is always someone better.

-Superior skill and technique are easily and often undone by bad luck.



There are very few times where I ever suggest that someone try to "win" a fight. Unless it is part of the job description or I am drawing them off someone else, I have no interest in hanging around in a street fight. I've BTDT and in general I have really no interest in doing it outside of strict necessity.

 

[churchmouse]

As I constantly beat into my son's heads:

-No matter how good you get, there is always someone better.

-Superior skill and technique are easily and often undone by bad luck.



There are very few times where I ever suggest that someone try to "win" a fight. Unless it is part of the job description or I am drawing them off someone else, I have no interest in hanging around in a street fight. I've BTDT and in general I have really no interest in doing it outside of strict necessity.

No one really wins a street fight. The dents dings cuts and bruises are price enough.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

BJJ and wrestling are not the same thing at all different goals, different styles and such.

Shuia Jiao, ditangqinna shr, juijitsu, newaza, bjj are all wrestling. They cannot be anything but wrestling.

I advocated wrestling as a martial art is the very first post I made in this thread and people are pretending to not see it as if you have all become prosecutors or something.

 

[ATM]

Shuia Jiao, ditangqinna shr, juijitsu, newaza, bjj are all wrestling. They cannot be anything but wrestling.

I advocated wrestling as a martial art is the very first post I made in this thread and people are pretending to not see it as if you have all become prosecutors or something.

I hear only the sound of my own awesomeness...

 

[KJQ6945]

I hear only the sound of my own awesomeness...

Sig line material right there!

 

[Coach]

Shuia Jiao, ditangqinna shr, juijitsu, newaza, bjj are all wrestling. They cannot be anything but wrestling.

I advocated wrestling as a martial art is the very first post I made in this thread and people are pretending to not see it as if you have all become prosecutors or something.

Oh if you say so. Never mind that they do almost completely different things.

 

[hoosierdaddy1976]

Shuia Jiao, ditangqinna shr, juijitsu, newaza, bjj are all wrestling. They cannot be anything but wrestling.

I advocated wrestling as a martial art is the very first post I made in this thread and people are pretending to not see it as if you have all become prosecutors or something.

I'd venture to say they are all forms of grappling, but as stated above, the rules, goals, etc., of wrestling are different.

 

[Denny347]

The Biggest Lie in Jiu Jitsu

I think this speaks volumes to the question about how worthwhile the time and money spent in martial arts are for those training to combat violent crime. My personal experiences are well outside of the styles in the article but they are consistent with what the article covers.

Why are there weight classes in boxing and wrestling? Because size and strength make a huge difference.
Why do coaches want offensive lineman to be a big as possible. See statement above.

Women trying to go toe to toe is a losing bet almost all of the time.

The article is accurate, to a point. Given 2 opponents are the same size, skill will prevail. However, a small person with greater skill against a larger person with little skill will likely win. Lets face it, most of the mopes out here have little to NO skill so even a small person with solid skill with come out on top.

 

[Denny347]

The Biggest Lie in Jiu Jitsu

I think this speaks volumes to the question about how worthwhile the time and money spent in martial arts are for those training to combat violent crime. My personal experiences are well outside of the styles in the article but they are consistent with what the article covers.

Why are there weight classes in boxing and wrestling? Because size and strength make a huge difference.
Why do coaches want offensive lineman to be a big as possible. See statement above.

Women trying to go toe to toe is a losing bet almost all of the time.

I don't remember which number it is but Joe Rogan does an awesome podcast and has discussed the matter at length .

The one I'm thinking of specifically had Jocko Willink ( long time SEAL ret. ) on it and they talked about how jujitsu and specifically BJJ , rocked all of the traditional ideas of fighting both in the SEALS and dojos .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hbelyBN878

Here is Rogan's podcast. The other voice talking about BJJ is Sam Harris, a surprise to many.

 

[Denny347]

BJJ and wrestling are not the same thing at all different goals, different styles and such. Only in a very large sense are they the same thing. Oil and water are both liquids. That is about how I see BJJ and wrestling.

Yes, they are different. However, they actually mix very well. I train BJJ under blackbelt James Clingerman and he is an excellent teacher with a MMA/BJJ/Judo, and a few others, background. However, one of his coaches there is black belt Aaron Johnson who is an accomplished wrestler, trained at Foxcatcher at one point. https://www.jiujitsutimes.com/interview-with-a-champion-aaron-johnson/
He teaches a lot of wrestling in his BJJ and they are very solid moves. Some of our best guys came from solid wrestling backgrounds. I think they 2 sports mesh well.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I hear only the sound of my own awesomeness...

Blackwater prosecutors. I am surrounded by Blackwater prosecutors.

 

[churchmouse]

Train as much as you like.
Being able to apply said training is the key.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Oh if you say so. Never mind that they do almost completely different things.

Well, I do need to learn to how to create Euler diagrams. But the big circle is wrestling and then Shuia Jiao, DTQNS, Juijitsu, Judo, BJJ, wrestling and rasslin' are all smaller circles within the big circle of wrestling.