Man Curb Stomps Moveon.org woman and dewigs her at Rand Paul event.

[awatarius]

Rand Paul's not POTUS and doesn't have body guards. Just like the majority of politicians in this country. If the people around there didn't see anything beyond a piece of paper...like say, a gun or knife or bat then they had no cause to believe that she was a viable threat. Using your logic, it would be OK to assault just about anybody, because they might be a threat. When even the candidate says they were out of line, I don't think you've got a leg to stand on.

These guys committed a crime and in Fayette County, KY the chances are that they'll end up in jail for it.

What is this I am drinking?? Ah some tasty common sense and it tastes good! I wonder could you pass that around so everyone else can learn what it tastes like? ;-)

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[Joe Williams]

you're right, i should commit libel snipquote]

But, I didn't "commit libel." You are, again, merely engaging in propaganda instead of telling the truth to advance your agenda.

If you had truth on your side, you wouldn't need to do that.

 

[awatarius]

you're right, i should commit libel snipquote]

But, I didn't "commit libel." You are, again, merely engaging in propaganda instead of telling the truth to advance your agenda.

If you had truth on your side, you wouldn't need to do that.

I looked pretty hard for some propaganda.. agree with him or not he has voiced his opinion rather well if not loudly. Truth is a perception of the readers anyway. This being an open board with varying ideas I would find it hard to prove there is an agenda any more then your own.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[littletommy]

Is it just me, or is this race, Paul vs Conway, one of the filthiest cluster ****s in recent memory?

 

[level.eleven]

Is it just me, or is this race, Paul vs Conway, one of the filthiest cluster ****s in recent memory?

Well, no one has been offed yet, thankfully.

The moveon/daily kos/maddow crowd has had a hard-on for the Paul campaign. They finally got what they wanted.

 

[theweakerbrother]

I see no woman in this video... that was a MAN, BABY. YEA!!!

 

[techres]

Well, no one has been offed yet, thankfully.

The moveon/daily kos/maddow crowd has had a hard-on for the Paul campaign. They finally [STRIKE]got[/STRIKE] were handed on a silver platter what they wanted.

Fixed it there for you.

Grab someone and go to the concrete with them and you can expect consequences. Better have a good idea of what they are before you act. If you have no idea, then maybe you have not thought enough.

Good intentions and paths to hell. The link is often pride.

 

[level.eleven]

Fixed it there for you.

Grab someone and go to the concrete with them and you can expect consequences. Better have a good idea of what they are before you act. If you have no idea, then maybe you have not thought enough.

Good intentions and paths to hell. The link is often pride.

What are you supposed to do when a person in disguise wants to get close to a candidate and hand deliver them something? Be it a pie in the face or a piece of paper?

If Profitt's account is to be trusted, and stacked up against the professional activist I will side with him, what are event organizers to do when they ask a police officer to look into a suspicious person, obviously disguising their identity, that they think may have nefarious intentions and the result is "not our problem"?

Should the professional activist be allowed to hand deliver material to the candidate without being vetted? Should she be allowed to pose for a picture with the candidate knowing that she is an operative from your competitors campaign?

Finally, like I said, these .orgs have been trying to capture a gotcha moment of the Paul campaign ever since he assumed the lead. People don't appreciate this type of politics. You can only push men so far. In this case, they got what they wanted. Of course they would have got what they wanted had the professional activist got what she wanted. A picture to clown RP on liberal blogs. No win.

Perhaps this would have had a better ending if the police would have investigated the woman disguising her identity, as the organizers requested.

 

[techres]

A picture to clown RP on liberal blogs. No win.

Get wound up on this so far that you are willing to apply force on another human and you are opening a gate you do not want to pass through.

Legally.

Morally.

Criminally.

Step back, take a breath, and see that getting wound up clouds the mind and hands the other side exactly what they wanted (i.e. this is WAY WAY better than what they could have hoped for...).

YMMMV

 

[Timjoebillybob]

No pushing, spitting or anything like it. Just a moment of gotcha picture taking from a MoveOn person. Haven't heard anything that would give me cause to believe that she deserved the treatment she received at the hands of these guys.

Here is a video that shows a bit before she was taken down, it looks to me like she was pushing her way through
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbnEy_U9pYk&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - More video of Rand Paul Thugs Stomping Democratic Woman[/ame]

If the people around there didn't see anything beyond a piece of paper...like say, a gun or knife or bat then they had no cause to believe that she was a viable threat. Using your logic, it would be OK to assault just about anybody, because they might be a threat. When even the candidate says they were out of line, I don't think you've got a leg to stand on.

Being in disguise, according to reports acting suspicious, attempting to charge Paul as soon as he started getting out of the vehicle... I'd say that just might give someone reasonable suspicion of her being a threat. And that sign was more than big enough to hid a large pistol behind, or under her hoodie or..

That being said imo the foot on the shoulder/head was way over the top, she appeared at least to me effectively restrained.

 

[level.eleven]

Get wound up on this so far that you are willing to apply force on another human and you are opening a gate you do not want to pass through.

Legally.

Morally.

Criminally.

Step back, take a breath, and see that getting wound up clouds the mind and hands the other side exactly what they wanted (i.e. this is WAY WAY better than what they could have hoped for...).

YMMMV

Thats nice, but you avoided the issue and didn't offer any resolution to the situation at hand. Should disguised individuals be allowed to hand deliver goods to candidates without being screened? Why didn't police act when approached about a suspicious person attempting to gain access to a candidate while disguising their identity?

"I'm sorry that it came to that, and I apologize if it appeared overly forceful, but I was concerned about Rand's safety," Profitt told The Associated Press.

"A friend of mine went up to three policeman before Rand got there, and told them about the girl who was standing there with that wig on and that she was getting ready to do something," Profitt said. "The policemen looked at him and said that's not our job."

Is your approach to simply hope that she isn't a threat, allowing her to approach a candidate for office in a disguise? Does the second video show her approach a political figure, from behind, after exiting his vehicle, wearing a disguise, having pushed through the crowd in order to make contact? I guess the security detail could have given her a hug and hope she didn't have a gun. /shrug

I'm not worked up or anything, just having some fun! mjarelle pretty much summed up my feeling on Randy.

 

[littletommy]

Get wound up on this so far that you are willing to apply force on another human and you are opening a gate you do not want to pass through.

Legally.

Morally.

Criminally.

Step back, take a breath, and see that getting wound up clouds the mind and hands the other side exactly what they wanted (i.e. this is WAY WAY better than what they could have hoped for...).

YMMMV

^^^^ +1
This is pretty much my thoughts on the whole thing before I ever looked at the video.

"Hey, let's get so and so to stir up a little crap at Rand Paul's rally, she's just nutty enough to do it"!

And some internet bad-ass, never had a girlfriend, secret service wanna-be took the bait. Nice job A-hole!! I guess that dude aint gonna be on Rand's Christmas card list anymore.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Sweet, innocent women are never a threat to public figures.

And some internet bad-ass, never had a girlfriend, secret service wanna-be took the bait. Nice job A-hole!! I guess that dude aint gonna be on Rand's Christmas card list anymore.

Dead on. The Left wanted a media moment and who better to send than a woman. I would anticipate several more before November 2d.

However, I believe the wanna be mall ninja acted out of excitement, not malice. There is an art to restraining these people and that's why the police study it so heavily. As I said before his actions were inartful.

 

[Phil502]

Good video, they kept saying get the cop. The guy gave her a little foot push to stay down, probably, most likely a little over the top. She was more over the top.

 

[zebov]

*sigh* Sometimes a politician's worst enemies are his supporters.

 

[techres]

Thats nice, but you avoided the issue and didn't offer any resolution to the situation at hand.

Oh, sorry, I did not mean to be unclear. Let me help you.

Should disguised individuals be allowed to hand deliver goods to candidates without being screened?

If the candidate so chooses, then yes. It is his to hire and use security. The venue and the security can determine access (which is the "allow" part of private property).

As for the "right" to hand it to him, then yes - there is no cancellation of the first Ammendment because you wear a wig. Hell, the guys who wrote the first Ammendment sometimes wore wigs themselves.

Costumes, wigs, fake ID's (kinda like we do here on the net) are not criminal and thus the 1st Ammendment still holds. Sorry.

If you apply force to stop that, then you have taken both the law, and the right into your hands. I would not do that lightly both because of the seriousness of them and because of the consequences.

Why didn't police act when approached about a suspicious person attempting to gain access to a candidate while disguising their identity?

Because they were there for actual security threats and not political theater? Or maybe they were just not doing their jobs. But it was their job, not self appointed security men from the assembled guests.

 

[level.eleven]

Oh, sorry, I did not mean to be unclear. Let me help you.



If the candidate so chooses, then yes. It is his to hire and use security. The venue and the security can determine access (which is the "allow" part of private property).

As for the "right" to hand it to him, then yes - there is no cancellation of the first Ammendment because you wear a wig. Hell, the guys who wrote the first Ammendment sometimes wore wigs themselves.

Costumes, wigs, fake ID's (kinda like we do here on the net) are not criminal and thus the 1st Ammendment still holds. Sorry.

If you apply force to stop that, then you have taken both the law, and the right into your hands. I would not do that lightly both because of the seriousness of them and because of the consequences.



Because they were there for actual security threats and not political theater? Or maybe they were just not doing their jobs. But it was their job, not self appointed security men from the assembled guests.

So, the cop knew she wasn't a threat? Why didn't he/she convey that to the event organizers who asked for assistance? If it isn't the job of private security to address threats, what good is it to hire them? Your first and last paragraphs aren't jiving, at least not for me.

I appreciate your zeal for the 1st and I wish we lived in that world. None the less, that free speech (wig wearing) has consequences, particularly when you try to hide your identity. Try getting service at the BMV wearing a ski mask, hell, a burka for that matter.

If you want to discuss something like NAP, I think its also important to note that the professional activist pushed through others in the crowd and the security perimeter set up for Paul as he exited his vehicle and made his way inside. Who initiated aggression?

 

[techres]

The guys involved were security? They were the hired security of Rand Paul or the venue? That is not my understanding.

As for the lady, yeah she is a pain. Sure. No argument.

But she still has rights and from what I see here, the guys who put/held her down are in trouble for violating them. Even if they meant well.

 

[miguel]

It's about time someone cracked a smart-assed "progressive" in my opinion.

Her profound, snarky, immature "I was just trying to present him with the RepubliCorp employee of the month award" comment sickens me. It's like a bully on a school bus who puts his finger in your face and says, "I'm not touching you...what are ya gonna do about it?" At some point, yer gonna get yer ass cracked is what's going to happen.

If you want to exercise free speech and freedom of assembly, that's fine...stand there, hold up your sign, blow a whistle, beat a drum, shout with a bullhorn, write a blog post, join ACORN, whatever. Bring a physical presence to your opinion or the presentation of your opinion, and there will often be a physical response. Many seem surprised that someone who wades into a throng of people who disagree with them gets manhandled. Are you serious? If someone walked downtown at night during Black Expo wearing a confederate flag t-shirt, they're gonna get their ass kicked, and rightfully so. It's bad form. Hell, you can't go to a Raiders game in Oakland with an opposing team's jersey -- even with a child! -- and not get foreign objects thrown at you and your party. Is that right? No. Is it gonna happen? Yes. Should you be surprised? No.

And lastly, I fully reject the, "She's a woman, be chivalrous!" comments, since chivalry demands a lady be, well, a lady, not some provoking huckster who rejects the rulebook she wants you to abide by. Sorry, but this is the new order you asked for, baby. If they want chivalry suspended, then all provisions are suspended equally, not just the ones they don't like. Isn't that what they all want, equality? In this case, the equality to be rude, pushy and aggressive ought to apply, equally.

Send her chocolates or a card if you're upset about it.

 

[techres]

Send her chocolates or a card if you're upset about it.

The upset I have is that while I was shaking Ron Paul's hand at one place, some other supporters were helping to sink his son another another place.

Furthermore I am upset that people are not learning a lesson here and so I am fully expecting the next group to take this up to the next notch of incivility and slowly increase in accepted violence. In that game the 3rd party and right lose. Either by fulfilling the stereotype of JBT/Nutjobs, or by making lawlessness acceptable.

Lose/lose all based on getting peeved at some pushy college lady trying to be petty. I just don't see any win here at all.

Again, with friends like these...