Changing carry gun habits

[bwframe]

This has generally been my assumption, except for "in the home". If I ever have to defend myself and they're attempting to confiscate every gun in the house, I think they'd be up for some pretty nasty legal battles in the future and they're going to need some pretty strong probable cause to pry my safe open without a warrant when I'm the guy that called them... I'm sure it's happened to some poor SOB out there before though.

That may well be, but you may not have any choice in the matter. Officers on the scene could well determine a lot, based on their department and personal views. You could well catch an anti-gun cop or one that works for a department that is such.

Even unbiased officers will likely air on the side of covering their own tails. Shot bad guy lands on the floor in a funny position that makes it look like you put a round or two in him after he was down, then who is the BG?

Maybe you had a drink or two? Maybe you have some gray hair or military PTSD on your record? Maybe your neighbors think you are bossy or have argued with you in the past or thought you were creepy for whatever reason?

 

[Vigilant]

But just having stuff sitting around and taking up space is, to me, the worse option than not having that stuff.

So you’re out of TP?

 

[CampingJosh]

So you’re out of TP?

Nope. Big difference between consumables and tools.

 

[maxwelhse]

That may well be, but you may not have any choice in the matter. Officers on the scene could well determine a lot, based on their department and personal views.

Even unbiassed officers will likely air on the side of covering their own tails. Shot bad guy lands on the floor in a funny position at makes it look like you put a round or two in him after he was down, then who is the BG?

Maybe you had a drink or two? Maybe you have some gray hair or military PTSD on your record? Maybe your neighbors think you are bossy or have argued with you in the past or thought you were creepy, for whatever reason?

To apply this scenario to it's full conclusion, where all of your guns are gone and you're not legally permitted to buy more, I'm still not seeing how potentially getting nailed for an extra felony gun charge at the end of that road helps anything at all. I don't illegally carry firearms now and I'd be even more unlikely to do so in that scenario.

 

[bwframe]

 

[Vigilant]

To apply this scenario to it's full conclusion, where all of your guns are gone and you're not legally permitted to buy more, I'm still not seeing how potentially getting nailed for an extra felony gun charge at the end of that road helps anything at all. I don't illegally carry firearms now and I'd be even more unlikely to do so in that scenario.

So, you’ll turn yours over when THEY come?

 

[Vigilant]

Nope. Big difference between consumables and tools.

Tools to me are consumables. Screwdrivers don’t last forever.

 

[CampingJosh]

Yet the JD still has a place and is still performing a function. That's the side of the coin I'm on. Any operational firearm that I'm confident in and outfitted to carry is worth having around until some other limitation comes up that prevents it. If it's cash, or space, or whatever, that's up to each person to decide. I've never had to make that decision and I hope not to. I'm also not chastising you for making different decisions (nor do I feel you're doing that to me).



Except in this case I have normal length wrenches, stubby wrenches, long wrenches, ratcheting wrenches, and line wrenches, in SAE and Metric (sp 10 sets) and that's just my standard primary tool set (there are other sets as well). I could certainly get by with fewer sets, but I'm happy to have them all as they all can perform slightly different functions and none exactly or completely duplicates the other. All of these also occupy 1.5 drawers in my tool box (and I've got a plan to put them all in one drawer), so, no reason to thin the herd.

Then we've miscommunicated; to me, that's all one set.

Hell.. I think I have 5 torque wrenches with the same logic applied. The same is true with my guns. There's overlap, and even redundancy, but there's not presently any reason to cast anything off and the only ones that come to my mind would be space and money. I can always make more space and I hope the money never becomes such a big issue that I have to make that choice. If I ever own a gun that is straight up useless, then I made a bad buying decision in the first place.

To me it's like golf clubs. Every club has its own purpose, and there's overlap, but I'm not going to hang on to an old Ted Williams set of irons "just in case" when I have a newer Callaway set. I'd rather some poor middle school kid take them and see if he's interested in the game.

I have overlap in my guns. I have redundancy. But it is possible for me to have too many tools for the same job, and I don't get particularly sentimental about tools or guns, so I'm happy to let something go if it's just going to be the backup to a backup.

 

[maxwelhse]

So, you’ll turn yours over when THEY come?

No... If there's national gun confiscation I'll die with them in my hands as God intended. If I shoot somebody breaking into my house and the police seize evidence (by whatever unconstitutional boundary that may cross), I'm not intending to start a shootout with them. In fact, and this is a story for another time, I've drawn on a cop before (didn't know he was a cop at the time and he understood that) and managed not to have a shoot out or have my guns confiscated.

There's a big difference between minding my own business and getting the old "no knock" and an actual criminal investigation that our current laws support and have found constitutional. If they infringe on my 4th amendment rights in the course of an otherwise legal investigation, I'll have that day in court.

 

[maxwelhse]

I'd rather some poor middle school kid take them and see if he's interested in the game.

I have overlap in my guns. I have redundancy. But it is possible for me to have too many tools for the same job, and I don't get particularly sentimental about tools or guns, so I'm happy to let something go if it's just going to be the backup to a backup.

This is probably our biggest difference and it's just down to personality. I'd give someone a system I was confident in before I'd consider selling it just for cash. The ability to outfit someone else is more important to me than the money, at this moment anyhow, and I hope it stays that way.

I'm also extremely sentimental about "things". I admit it's not a great personality trait if it goes into a love of "stuff" kind of place, but that's not usually what it is. I have fond memories with all of my guns and usually those memories start back with the people I bought them from. Even the stuff I've bought at an LGS, I know the guy who sold them to me personally. I'm not a Gander/RK type of buyer. Most of my stuff came from individuals. So... If I bought a Josh cast off, and we hit it off and had a good time and became buds, I wouldn't want to sell your gun either because I'd simply just enjoy owning one of your guns because we're buddies and I'd think of our friendship every time I saw it. Now... If I had 30 Josh specials, they may become less special.

 

[Vigilant]

No... If there's national gun confiscation I'll die with them in my hands as God intended. If I shoot somebody breaking into my house and the police seize evidence (by whatever unconstitutional boundary that may cross), I'm not intending to start a shootout with them. In fact, and this is a story for another time, I've drawn on a cop before (didn't know he was a cop at the time and he understood that) and managed not to have a shoot out or have my guns confiscated.

There's a big difference between minding my own business and getting the old "no knock" and an actual criminal investigation that our current laws support and have found constitutional. If they infringe on my 4th amendment rights in the course of an otherwise legal investigation, I'll have that day in court.

That’s better, now, wouldn’t it be prudent to have an offsite blaster in the event they come to confiscate while you’re not home, and they roll you up at work?(Where I assume you aren’t carrying?)

 

[maxwelhse]

That’s better, now, wouldn’t it be prudent to have an offsite blaster in the event they come to confiscate while you’re not home, and they roll you up at work?

No, because that would be a violation of my 4th amendment rights and I'll have that day in court. If you're talking about doing that at a national level in a WROL situation (which is what I would consider that), I've already stated that having an offsite cache isn't a terrible idea. But, those are 2 extremely different situations.

To pull this back to the topic at hand a little but, that is also more fuel to the fire of never selling a gun... Cache them up somewhere else makes more sense, IMO.

 

[Vigilant]

A guy with a Grindr profile like yours should probably have more than a PACE plan maybe a PACECAR Primary Alternate Contingency, Emergency Condoms Astroglide Roofies?

 

[maxwelhse]

A guy with a Grindr profile like yours should probably have more than a PACE plan maybe a PACECAR Primary Alternate Contingency, Emergency Condoms Astroglide Roofies?

Pretty rich from the guy that has a family sapling...

 

[bwframe]

You are forced to shoot a BG in your house tonight. Cops decide maybe you weren't perfectly in the right. To err on the side of caution, they confiscate all of your firearms.

You'll get your day in court, went it's decided court can be in session again. One can only guess how long that could be, on top of what the backlog might be right now?

No self defense tools for you for that long wait?

 

[Vigilant]

My PACE plan doesn’t just include firearms, I have other supplies cached as well. Set aside shooting anyone for right now, a fire, tornado, earthquake, wild sex party, what have you, TOTALLY levels your home and preps. What’s your plan now?

 

[maxwelhse]

You are forced to shoot a BG in your house tonight. Cops decide maybe you weren't perfectly in the right. To err on the side of caution, they confiscate all of your firearms.

You'll get your day in court, went it's decided court can be in session again. One can only guess how long that could be, on top of what the backlog might be right now?

No self defense tools for you for that long wait?

In this scenario am I also legally barred from buying more firearms? If so, then yes, I would err to the side of no self defense. As I said, I don't illegally own or carry firearms now and I'm not going to start as I feel that could only make things worse.

Consider the scenario where my actions toward self defense were so questionable to be in this spot in the first place and now it happens a second time with an illegal firearm before the first event has concluded? I'd be going to prison for life for sure anyhow. I choose death.

I also admit that I'm only talking about myself here as I have no family. If I had to make the choice of protecting my family or just me alone, the scale of my options may tip a different way.

 

[Jozenbau]

Tools to me are consumables. Screwdrivers don’t last forever.

That is correct, sometimes ya gotta refill the glass or run to the liquor store.

 

[maxwelhse]

My PACE plan doesn’t just include firearms, I have other supplies cached as well. Set aside shooting anyone for right now, a fire, tornado, earthquake, wild sex party, what have you, TOTALLY levels your home and preps. What’s your plan now?

Currently, bunk with my parents until the insurance comes through. They have an entire apartment in their basement. If it's so bad I can't get to them, then I probably couldn't get to any other cache either. If you're compounding things like a national emergency of much greater scale than what we're seeing now and one of those events. I'm probably just gonna die as are a lot of other people. If this virus was 10x more lethal, loss of primary residence would pretty much be a death sentence regardless, IMO.

I'm also enjoying just how completely off the rails this thread has become. Only on INGO!

 

[Jozenbau]

I’m lovin it hahaha. Never thought it would even end up this far. Am learning some good stuff I feel though.