A friendly discussion of OC vs CC

[ATM]

Well, B happens a lot.

A - not so much.

...and is more difficult to obtain once a felon.

That's funny. They don't even have to pay taxes, you know.

 

[dom1104]

Well, B happens a lot.

A - not so much.



That's funny. They don't even have to pay taxes, you know.

Lol. I know it. The chance of either happening is microscopic in the extreme.

And yeah, I thought to myself, someone is going to pickup on how its easy to get a illegal gun, but I figured I would throw that in there anyhow.

I am just saying, when I OC, ONE of the things I am doing is saying "Hey check it out, I got a nice gun over here" which means I need to be more aware.

Just as if you drove a nice car, were carrying an ipad or anything else "valuable".

 

[turnandshoot4]

Lol. I know it. The chance of either happening is microscopic in the extreme.

And yeah, I thought to myself, someone is going to pickup on how its easy to get a illegal gun, but I figured I would throw that in there anyhow.

I am just saying, when I OC, ONE of the things I am doing is saying "Hey check it out, I got a nice gun over here" which means I need to be more aware.

Just as if you drove a nice car, were carrying an ipad or anything else "valuable".

1. Most criminals ARE NOT gun people. They can't shoot. They can't value most guns. The only thing they MIGHT know is what they saw at the local gun shop. The fact they might know that I'm carrying an Ed Brown and it is actually a $2,500 pistol is slim to none.

2. They do know, however, that I represent bodily harm to them. I represent a difficult robbery.

3. I don't know how many times I have to say this. Criminals are LAZY. They will kill someone for $5 (it has happened). But they generally don't do it if it involves alot of work. This is why they ROB people instead of working for 8, 10, 12, 16 hours a day.

4. Just curious about your "stab you in the neck" question. What is your natural reaction if someone moves quickly towards you? To MOVE! I work in an ER and NO ONE ever goes down like in the "movies" No one gets shot like the movies. People mostly get stabbed in the hands. Why? That is how you defend yourself. RARELY do people even sustain life threatening injuries. Why? Because when fighting for your life you fight for seperation. What can you do with seperation? Draw your gun.

Just my

 

[clgustaveson]

1. Most criminals ARE NOT gun people. They can't shoot. They can't value most guns. The only thing they MIGHT know is what they saw at the local gun shop. The fact they might know that I'm carrying an Ed Brown and it is actually a $2,500 pistol is slim to none.

2. They do know, however, that I represent bodily harm to them. I represent a difficult robbery.

3. I don't know how many times I have to say this. Criminals are LAZY. They will kill someone for $5 (it has happened). But they generally don't do it if it involves alot of work. This is why they ROB people instead of working for 8, 10, 12, 16 hours a day.

4. Just curious about your "stab you in the neck" question. What is your natural reaction if someone moves quickly towards you? To MOVE! I work in an ER and NO ONE ever goes down like in the "movies" No one gets shot like the movies. People mostly get stabbed in the hands. Why? That is how you defend yourself. RARELY do people even sustain life threatening injuries. Why? Because when fighting for your life you fight for seperation. What can you do with seperation? Draw your gun.

Just my

Why in the world would you need to draw your gun?

But on a realisting note, would it not make sense to attempt to draw your gun BEFORE you need to fight for separation?

I would never render my belongings without a threat to my life, and at that point I am not guaging the persons gonads to attack me, I am guaging whether or not I can take them...

I am never going waste my hard earned brain power to determine the other's intent-- WHEN THEY ARE ROBBING ME -- seems like a no brainer. Ability is what I will guage, and a shotgun has the ability... you do the math.

 

[dom1104]

1. Most criminals ARE NOT gun people. They can't shoot. They can't value most guns. The only thing they MIGHT know is what they saw at the local gun shop. The fact they might know that I'm carrying an Ed Brown and it is actually a $2,500 pistol is slim to none.

2. They do know, however, that I represent bodily harm to them. I represent a difficult robbery.

3. I don't know how many times I have to say this. Criminals are LAZY. They will kill someone for $5 (it has happened). But they generally don't do it if it involves alot of work. This is why they ROB people instead of working for 8, 10, 12, 16 hours a day.

4. Just curious about your "stab you in the neck" question. What is your natural reaction if someone moves quickly towards you? To MOVE! I work in an ER and NO ONE ever goes down like in the "movies" No one gets shot like the movies. People mostly get stabbed in the hands. Why? That is how you defend yourself. RARELY do people even sustain life threatening injuries. Why? Because when fighting for your life you fight for seperation. What can you do with seperation? Draw your gun.

Just my

Honestly i spent less time dreaming up that hypothetical scenario then it takes to type it out.

Talking hypothetically is fruitless, but I think my point is valid, being aware of what goes on around you while OC is a very good idea.

 

[turnandshoot4]

1. Why in the world would you need to draw your gun?

2. But on a realisting note, would it not make sense to attempt to draw your gun BEFORE you need to fight for separation?

3. I would never render my belongings without a threat to my life, and at that point I am not guaging the persons gonads to attack me, I am guaging whether or not I can take them...

4. I am never going waste my hard earned brain power to determine the other's intent-- WHEN THEY ARE ROBBING ME -- seems like a no brainer. Ability is what I will guage, and a shotgun has the ability... you do the math.

1. Who says the attack stopped?

2. The attacker always has the upper hand. Mercop's videos show this. If they are close enough to "stab you in the neck" they are within arms reach. You will always be drawing AFTER an attack, hense it will be a "defensive shooting."

3. In the OC situation the attacker first sizes up someone. THEY make the decision to attack someone. How long do you supppose an attack lasts? 1 minute? 3 minutes? There is no time to think about it. Only to react.

4. I'm lost.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Honestly i spent less time dreaming up that hypothetical scenario then it takes to type it out.

Talking hypothetically is fruitless, but I think my point is valid, being aware of what goes on around you while OC is a very good idea.

My favorite people are lerts.

 

[ATM]

Talking hypothetically is fruitless, but I think my point is valid, being aware of what goes on around you while OC is a very good idea.

Sorry, that point is also irrelevant in this thread.

Unless being aware while CC is somehow not a good idea, the point is not specific to carry method.

 

[clgustaveson]

1. Who says the attack stopped?

2. The attacker always has the upper hand. Mercop's videos show this. If they are close enough to "stab you in the neck" they are within arms reach. You will always be drawing AFTER an attack, hense it will be a "defensive shooting."

3. In the OC situation the attacker first sizes up someone. THEY make the decision to attack someone. How long do you supppose an attack lasts? 1 minute? 3 minutes? There is no time to think about it. Only to react.

4. I'm lost.

1. I was kidding, due to the fact that the argument was made that some of these victims may have been CCing but NONE of them drew.

2. I agree, but I wouldn't just sit on my hands while a suspicious van drives up and opens the door... I was pointing out there are certain circumstances when separation isn't the only thing needed. Those in the van, holding you at gunpoint, might tell you to throw your bag and/or purse/wallet into the van...

3. The first part of that is only implied, it happens but to what extent can only be guessed in most situations. I was simply suggesting that you don't need to guage their intentions, only their ability... a man can walk up to me and act like he is going to punch me if I don't render my wallet.... I will simply use the hand combat training I have...

4. Should that be in purple? HAHA NAW The OP said he guages the situation to determine the amount of resistance, my point is that is non needed since I am being robbed-- the assailant will use necisary force, I need to do so also.

 

[clgustaveson]

Sorry, that point is also irrelevant in this thread.

Unless being aware while CC is somehow not a good idea, the point is not specific to carry method.

Its irrelevant to point out is irrelevance....

 

[ATM]

Its irrelevant to point out is irrelevance....

Don't make me get redundant




...again




...a second time.

 

[rmabrey]

Just stopping in to see if its still friendly, and if it is what I can do to change that

 

[rmabrey]

wrong thread

 

[clgustaveson]

wrong thread

1" or 3/4"

 

[GIJEW]

While most criminals aren't PSYCHO-paths who will kill for fun/pleasure like a serial killer, by definition virtually ALL criminals are SOCIO-paths: amoral opportunists who usually won't have any qualms about killing if they think they need to.
The deterrant value of OC is limited by considerations like distance and element of surprise. OC in the woods etc. or on a busy city street, where a thug could get behind you and 1)grab YOUR pistol or 2)just shoot or stab you, are not the same tactical situation and the deterrant value of OCwon't be the same. I believe the OP said this too. Can't argue with OC as a way to "get guns out of the closet" but we have INGO OC parades for that.
OC has it advantages but like any tool, it's not always the right one.

There are two arguments against open carry:

1) open carry marks you and escalated a situation
Or
2) open carry is ______

The first argument is false, misleading and dangerous.

The arguments you are making are wrong. You are stating the the only reason one would open carry is to be used as a deterant. This is fundamentally false.

Open Carry gives you many other tactical advantages: faster draw, larger guns, and deference.

If my open gun draws an assailant to me, rather than an unarmed citizen, I have done one thing right. Don't get me wrong, I am no hero but I play one on the Internet.

Very fee criminals are sociopaths, very fee would kill for tactical advantage. Less than 1% are sociopaths. MOST and by most I mean nearly ALL would avoid killing at all costs. The presence of a gun is a deterant in MOST situations.

 

[ATM]

...or on a busy city street, where a thug could get behind you and 1)grab YOUR pistol or 2)just shoot or stab you...

Of course, they could... but why don't they?
Perhaps there is an element of armed deterrence which trumps even distance and surprise.

...Can't argue with OC as a way to "get guns out of the closet" but we have INGO OC parades for that.

Isolated events are great for some purposes, but they will never breach what has become a societal antipathy toward guns by themselves.
Special events are never considered the norm. What you see every day is.

 

[rmabrey]

by definition virtually ALL criminals are SOCIO-paths: amoral opportunists who usually won't have any qualms about killing if they think they need to.

do you have some sort of study to back this up or is this a subjective opinion?

 

[clgustaveson]

While most criminals aren't PSYCHO-paths who will kill for fun/pleasure like a serial killer, by definition virtually ALL criminals are SOCIO-paths: amoral opportunists who usually won't have any qualms about killing if they think they need to.
The deterrant value of OC is limited by considerations like distance and element of surprise. OC in the woods etc. or on a busy city street, where a thug could get behind you and 1)grab YOUR pistol or 2)just shoot or stab you, are not the same tactical situation and the deterrant value of OCwon't be the same. I believe the OP said this too. Can't argue with OC as a way to "get guns out of the closet" but we have INGO OC parades for that.
OC has it advantages but like any tool, it's not always the right one.

Sociopath and psychopath are clinically the same thing. Both are categorized under antisocial personality disorder and are less than 1% of the US population....

But what do I know, I'm no psychologist, I just play one at school.

A nice lil reference site: Robert Hare's Page for the Study of Psychopaths, "Sociopaths", Violent Offenders, Serial Killers...

 

[clgustaveson]

do you have some sort of study to back this up or is this a subjective opinion?

Well, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say there is no research to back it, and based onthe syntax formation it can't be an opinion... So it must be fa(lse)ct!

 

[rmabrey]

Well, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say there is no research to back it, and based onthe syntax formation it can't be an opinion... So it must be fa(lse)ct!

yeah im not buying it either