Do you TRULY want a good AR-15 or do you want crap?

[Woobie]

Beardless faces are for women, children, and people who have to wear a gas mask or SCBA as part of their job description. Which one are you?

The AR you have is better than the one you can't afford. Get the best you can afford for your needs.

Are you as reliable, accurate, and quick as your weapon system? Software kills more people than hardware.

 

[Trigger Time]

Most of my ARs fall into the junk category, yet I've taken classes with them and run thousands of rounds without problems (other than those between my ears.) If you plan to "go to war" with your AR, buy high end. For many entry level shooters, 1K rounds is 5 years worth of shooting, so a budget (Bushmaster, PSA, S&W) will probably be just fine for their recreational needs.

While buying higher end is great, if someone is on a budget and wants to shoot, I won't be the one to tell them "Too bad, $700 won't cut it."

actualy $700 will cut it. Here's what I've always recommended to friends and other gun people. Buy a BCM factory built complete upper which you can get from $500 and up. Then buy a decent lower. At a later date you can upgrade your complete lower or just the trigger. The upper is what counts the most.

I have no issue with people buying other manufacturers. If they work theough a class then awesome you have beat the odds in a lot of cases.
I don't have an issue with S&W or older bushmaster. Also premium PSA seem to be ok.
But they aren't BCM
Fit, finish, and function is something you will see a difference in with a BCM which still is budget friendly. They aren't as much as a Daniel defense often.
also you can buy lowers and uppers seperate. BCM is trying to make their excellent product availible to all shooters!

 

[Vigilant]

actualy $700 will cut it. Here's what I've always recommended to friends and other gun people. Buy a BCM factory built complete upper which you can get from $500 and up. Then buy a decent lower. At a later date you can upgrade your complete lower or just the trigger. The upper is what counts the most.

I have no issue with people buying other manufacturers. If they work theough a class then awesome you have beat the odds in a lot of cases.
I don't have an issue with S&W or older bushmaster. Also premium PSA seem to be ok.
But they aren't BCM
Fit, finish, and function is something you will see a difference in with a BCM which still is budget friendly. They aren't as much as a Daniel defense often.
also you can buy lowers and uppers seperate. BCM is trying to make their excellent product availible to all shooters!

Stop with the sense making lest you Denny your own thread!

 

[Woobie]

Isn't FN making BCM barrels?

 

[Trigger Time]

Woobie I have no idea on that or if BCM even release that info. They aren't marked FN on any of mine I do know that. What I do know is that BCM uses several places to make their parts but they have their own set quality standard and do not accept other makers standards. If it's not up to BCM standards they will scrap the whole order and they won't even sell them as blems depending what it is. An Indiana manufacturer was making some of their rails at one time. Maybe still do.
I think the KMR rail system is the best lockup rail attachment I've ever seen and I've installed them all just about. (Makers)

Also info to help new buyers. Did you know if you buy a complete factory built rifle the government charges a special tax that the gun maker passes on to you? Yep. That's one reason BCM sells uppers and lowers seperate. So if you want a complete BCM gun buy the BCM lower and The BCM upper of your choice and you will get the same quality and fit but with a lower price for your wallet.

 

[miguel]

I like this guy, he does good videos.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Beardless faces are for women, children, and people who have to wear a gas mask or SCBA as part of their job description. Which one are you?

The AR you have is better than the one you can't afford. Get the best you can afford for your needs.

Are you as reliable, accurate, and quick as your weapon system? Software kills more people than hardware.

 

[Trigger Time]

The training issue is anwhole other thread that we could start (has been started many times). If even 10% of the members here had taken a training class it would blow my mind. So don't insert wisdom into this thread please. This is about the best bangstick for the money lol

 

[KG1]

nope this is intended to keep new gun or inexperienced gun people from buying junk.

I understand what your intentions are but you can go back through the thread and see a few inevitable posts, usually by the same posters that thump their chests about the stuff they have while trashing what others might potentially have. No matter if it's a thread about, triggers or barrels or any number of other parts.

I agree that the term "parts are parts" is a woofully inaccurate statement but I'm not of the opinion that ALL non "Top tier $$$" brand named parts are just junk.

 

[Woobie]

Woobie I have no idea on that or if BCM even release that info. They aren't marked FN on any of mine I do know that. What I do know is that BCM uses several places to make their parts but they have their own set quality standard and do not accept other makers standards. If it's not up to BCM standards they will scrap the whole order and they won't even sell them as blems depending what it is. An Indiana manufacturer was making some of their rails at one time. Maybe still do.
I think the KMR rail system is the best lockup rail attachment I've ever seen and I've installed them all just about. (Makers)

Also info to help new buyers. Did you know if you buy a complete factory built rifle the government charges a special tax that the gun maker passes on to you? Yep. That's one reason BCM sells uppers and lowers seperate. So if you want a complete BCM gun buy the BCM lower and The BCM upper of your choice and you will get the same quality and fit but with a lower price for your wallet.

Thats good info. I just assumed the tax was on the S/N part.

 

[Trigger Time]

Thats good info. I just assumed the tax was on the S/N part.

Thanks. No it's the completed gun from the manufacturer. I think Paul from BCM did an interview on it once. I'm not sure but I've had that info verified. That's one specific reason BCM sells uppers and lowers seperate to pass on savings to their customers which in turn sells more guns.
also BCM was one manufacturer that after sandy hook happened and the left states were all passing gun regulations outlawing AR's and mags, BCM issued a statement that they would no longer sell their rifles to LEO or govt in any state that kept the people of that state from also purchasing the same guns. That is taking a stand that I will stand behind everytime! They earned my business from that day on

 

[Woobie]

The training issue is anwhole other thread that we could start (has been started many times). If even 10% of the members here had taken a training class it would blow my mind. So don't insert wisdom into this thread please. This is about the best bangstick for the money lol

Lol, I'll concede the point.

My thinking is that if you can afford a DD or BCM, you're much better off doing so. I would put FN in that territory as well. If you can not afford one of those, but will be able to in a few months, then wait. If you can not afford it in the foreseeable future, then you should get what you can afford. If you have a friend who is a good builder, maybe sourcing quality parts is the way to go. If not, get an inexpensive rifle with a decent reputation. If you do manage to break something, replace it with a good part. You'll eventually spend more this way, potentially, but your costs will be spread out. And you still have a receiver set to build on if you get the bug and the money later on. Or you can sell the rifle off later to get the one you wanted.

FWIW, I think going cheap on an AK has a lot more potential to be a waste of money than going cheap on an AR. You really don't want to go less than $850ish on an AK.

I wouldn't disagree with anyone who put their money on a BCM. Wouldn't mind doing it myself. For now I'll have to wait.

 

[Trigger Time]

Lol, I'll concede the point.

My thinking is that if you can afford a DD or BCM, you're much better off doing so. I would put FN in that territory as well. If you can not afford one of those, but will be able to in a few months, then wait. If you can not afford it in the foreseeable future, then you should get what you can afford. If you have a friend who is a good builder, maybe sourcing quality parts is the way to go. If not, get an inexpensive rifle with a decent reputation. If you do manage to break something, replace it with a good part. You'll eventually spend more this way, potentially, but your costs will be spread out. And you still have a receiver set to build on if you get the bug and the money later on. Or you can sell the rifle off later to get the one you wanted.

FWIW, I think going cheap on an AK has a lot more potential to be a waste of money than going cheap on an AR. You really don't want to go less than $850ish on an AK.

I wouldn't disagree with anyone who put their money on a BCM. Wouldn't mind doing it myself. For now I'll have to wait.

i tend to agree with a lot of that. Hell lately I've been pointing people I know towards deals AERO has offered through brownells. Complete guns for under $500!!!
i really like aero precision and a quality factory gun for under $600 is great

edit: the aero guns are missing the hamdguards and stock set. Allowes people to buy what they want. Free floating barrel and midlength gas system which I think is better than carbine especially for better accuracy due to lower recoil

 

[Beowulf]

Beardless faces are for women, children, and people who have to wear a gas mask or SCBA as part of their job description. Which one are you?

The AR you have is better than the one you can't afford. Get the best you can afford for your needs.

Are you as reliable, accurate, and quick as your weapon system? Software kills more people than hardware.

Exactly, just look at the lack of beards on these two wussies.

Wait, what was this thread about again?

Anyway, there is definitely logic in the idea of paying for quality, though I'll be honest, as nice as the Daniel Defense guns are, I don't think they are 4 times the gun as some of their cheaper brethren. Frankly, ARs are so customizable that it almost doesn't really matter what you start with, as long the parts are within spec. You can pretty much upgrade and replace everything. So, buy a nice, durable lower, and just build the gun as you go.

My Sendra/Bushmaster XM15E2, made in 1984, has thousands and thousands of rounds downrange, pretty much all of them in full auto, through a myriad of uppers, and I never have issues with it. My go-to upper is a Noveske 10.5" CQB upper with a Flaming Pig on it. That set up is completely good to go and I wouldn't hesitate to take that into any sort of trouble I could get myself into (which is more than I can say for most of my HKs).

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Ref the firearms excise tax:


https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/4181

There is hereby imposed upon the sale by the manufacturer, producer, or importer of the following articles a tax equivalent to the specified percent of the price for which so sold:Articles taxable at 10 percent—
Pistols.
Revolvers.
Articles taxable at 11 percent—
Firearms (other than pistols and revolvers).
Shells, and cartridges.

The tax money goes into a wildlife related trust fund.

As for the various legalities of what's taxed and what's not...it seems complicated to me when it comes to ARs. Complete rifles are obviously charged, stripped lowers are not, but personally I'm unclear on where in the middle it becomes a firearm. https://blog.princelaw.com/tag/faet/ is the input of Prince Law Office, but I'm not sure if this "the final word" or not.

 

[indiucky]

Beardless faces are for women, children, and people who have to wear a gas mask or SCBA as part of their job description. Which one are you?

A Scots Irish/English hillbilly with enough American Indian DNA in me to make a one month beard look like someone glued 20 strands of pubic hair on various parts of my face in no particular pattern.....

Ask BBI...He's seen me with a two week one on....In the words of the late, great, Warren Zevon "It ain't that pretty at all...."

[video=youtube;Wwpagb-_Zk0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwpagb-_Zk0[/video]

 

[sgreen3]

95% of all AR owners will never need the difference of a BCM over a PSA... So for those individuals, yes their PSA is just as good....

 

[Mgderf]

95% of all AR owners will never need the difference of a BCM over a PSA... So for those individuals, yes their PSA is just as good....

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
Everyone has their opinion.

That is not a disparaging, nor an endorsing remark. Simply a statement of fact.
This discussion is an exercise in futility.
Good/better/best is subjective.

One mans trash is another mans treasure.

 

[sgreen3]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
Everyone has their opinion.

That is not a disparaging, nor an endorsing remark. Simply a statement of fact.
This discussion is an exercise in futility.
Good/better/best is subjective.

One mans trash is another mans treasure.

I just find it comical how some guys get so involved and opinionated with what others shoot and what they think of their equipment. Like I said 95% of all AR owners will never need the difference.

 

[Woobie]

Exactly, just look at the lack of beards on these two wussies.

.

Those men fall into the third category: Wearing a pro mask is part of the job description for them.