Untrained firearms owners

[rhino]

You do have training in NWI from Infinity Solutions. Recently a Valpo firefighter put on a "stop the bleed" class and had a ton of IS alumni there. Lots of options in NWI as well.


The interesting thing is the tactics and training forum is 29 times smaller in posts than the break room.

Fortess Defense is also in NWI/NE IL and does a lot of classes at Sand Burr near Rochester. I would train with them all the time if I could.

 

[JollyMon]

You are correct. Mandated training will not increase the education going on very much if at all.

The mandated training I took when I got my Utah license was the biggest waste of time.

While I agree that training is important. Practice is where still many suffer. Taking a 4-8 hour course once a year gives people a false sense of security. .

 

[DaveM44]

The truth is, you can't force people to care. You can shove them into state mandated classes for 4 weeks, and they'll forget most everything they learned within the next 2 weeks afterward. I've watched a whole lot of people who knew better do stupid things with their guns, and when it comes to ranges, darn near anything goes at the outdoor ones with no range officers around (Henryville is a prime example). Practice is even worse. I've known people that will buy a gun, run one box through it every 6 months and walk around with it on their hips. Unless you're channeling the spirit of Annie Oakley, that just isn't going to cut it. But, again, there's no way to enforce sufficient practice. As long as people meet the requirements to carry and stay within the law, they can do whatever they please. Not exactly comforting, but reality.

I admit I'm not the best trained out there, nor have I spent 10,000 dollars on tactical classes taught by the likes of Rob Leatham or Clint Smith. But I do take carrying around a deadly weapon seriously, and I do what I can physically and financially do to stay proficient and prepared.

 

[cedartop]

Rob Leatham teaches tactical classes? Sorry couldn't help it. Welcome to INGO.

 

[DaveM44]

Lol, well, no, he certainly doesn't. Though tactical or not, I'm quite sure he could teach me a thing or two.

 

[cedartop]

Lol, well, no, he certainly doesn't. Though tactical or not, I'm quite sure he could teach me a thing or two.

I have been told he is a very good instructor, though his wife is better with novices.

 

[rhino]

I have been told he is a very good instructor, though his wife is better with novices.

The next time you see my brother, ask him to tell his story about training with Rob Leatham. It's short, but funny.

 

[2A_Tom]

You do have training in NWI from Infinity Solutions. Recently a Valpo firefighter put on a "stop the bleed" class and had a ton of IS alumni there. Lots of options in NWI as well.


The interesting thing is the tactics and training forum is 29 times smaller in posts than the break room.

Fortess Defense is also in NWI/NE IL and does a lot of classes at Sand Burr near Rochester. I would train with them all the time if I could.

Because we discuss everything, including law, first aid, tactics and training, except Politics.

This is the first I have heard these. I don't know them from here. I do know the ones I've mentioned by reputation and have had interactions with them.

I seem to get the idea that cedartop may be one of those but he must be stealthy. Maybe they need to visit the break room more.

 

[87iroc]

Long thread...don't' have time to read it all. The Anti-Gun/Anti-Const Carry people I interact with use these same mindset to be against Guns in general(gun owners are knuckle dragging red necks with no training who are more likely to shoot muh baby than ever protect themselves).

Training is good...I want more...but when we notice gun people doing unsafe things...and then scream Constitutional carry cuz 'shall not be infringed' and stuff. Then bashing states that require training to carry...well, you can understand(if you take the time to) why those that don't care what the last 4 words of the 2nd amendment are(assuming they can see past the 'muskets only' argument) see gun owners as backwards hypocrites.

Kurts incentives to training is great...teaching the 4 rules in gym class is good too. Those are real solutions...but don't see that being talked about anywhere at the national or state level(I haven't looked...but it hasn't made the headlines at least).

 

[churchmouse]

You do have training in NWI from Infinity Solutions. Recently a Valpo firefighter put on a "stop the bleed" class and had a ton of IS alumni there. Lots of options in NWI as well.


The interesting thing is the tactics and training forum is 29 times smaller in posts than the break room.

True but the break room covers so much ground as to topics. Hard to match that.

 

[2A_Tom]

You do have training in NWI from Infinity Solutions. Recently a Valpo firefighter put on a "stop the bleed" class and had a ton of IS alumni there. Lots of options in NWI as well.


The interesting thing is the tactics and training forum is 29 times smaller in posts than the break room.

Fortess Defense is also in NWI/NE IL and does a lot of classes at Sand Burr near Rochester. I would train with them all the time if I could.

True but the break room covers so much ground as to topics. Hard to match that.

Tactics and training is a forum I visit when a thread pops up in unread posts. When I see a course that interests me I look into it and consider the cost and time frame.

I want to take all of the training I posibly can, but cannot afford all I want. Time constraints are also involved. I was recently recently offered a spot in a two day course for $400. I would love to take that class, I would scrape together the cash (it would definitely be worth it) although a bit high for mu budget. The price (not unreasonable) combined with Saturday & Sunday not working for me, plus the fact that I need two new knees and 2 - 8 hour days of tactical movement would really hurt I had to pass.

I enjoy it when some of you trainers start threads that discuss tactics and mindset here. I don't want you to give us everything free but the reason I turned to the groups I mentioned before is that I have gained respect for them here. I feel as though I know them and they have whet my appitite for more learning.

Maybe we should stress learning.

BTW You have to have skin in the game in order to really learn. Training costs and is time consuming so we will have an incentive to learn.

 

[j4jenk]

The problem is that everyone starts out in the red box on the left in every task that is new to them. Only through education do you get to the purple box, where training can begin.

 

[purdue98]

Idiots exist.

I recently started working at range that has an RSO stationed on the range. I've spent time there and in other ranges but never hours at a stretch as an RSO. After observing people for several hours there I realized an extremely small percentage of people have even basic knowledge of their own firearms. How in the world do you convince people, training is essential, firearms being inherently dangerous in the hands of untrained people?

NRA Life Member, Pistol instructor / RSO
Glock/M&P certified armorer
“Safety is not something that you hold in your hands, it happens between your ears”
Col. Jeff Cooper

I understand your point which could be further expanded to all aspects of life. Automobiles, wood chippers, knives, walking and texting.
It is a good post. I love atterbury but since moving to Lafayette last year, I go to Willow-Slough now. Try to go early when less people are there.
Good post.

 

[Amishman44]

I concur with the OP's concerns as I've been to indoor ranges and, after observing those already present who were repetatively displaying obvious unsafe behaviors, simply left to return later.

Having grown up on a farm, and getting to enjoy outdoor living for many years, shooting outdoors is a personal preference.

Having shot at several outdoor ranges, I've observed that most individuals there practice 'safe' gun-handling skills 98%+ of the time.

IMO, indoor ranges tend to draw more of the inexperienced crowd whereas the outdoor ranges tend to draw more of the experienced / maturity / considerate crowd!

Just my $0.02 worth...

 

[Amishman44]

The problem is that everyone starts out in the red box on the left in every task that is new to them. Only through education do you get to the purple box, where training can begin.

That's an excellent analogy...and a great argument to encourage training for everyone!

 

[ArevaloSocom]

No rapid fire! No fun! All safety! All day! That usually makes people love RSOs.....

 

[Benp]

There is more to firearms than just loading it and pulling the trigger. Unfortunately some people think that if they know how to load it and discharge it then they are good to go.

 

[turnandshoot4]

True but the break room covers so much ground as to topics. Hard to match that.

Very true!

If we exclude greetings, politics, and sales the break room has more posts than all of them. More than all of the gun, gear, training, hunting, legislation, events, knives, SHTF, shooting sports, reloading, etc. combined. If posts on INGO was a random sample of gun owners, the training community accounts for about 2% of the firearms population. Sounds about right.

Just an interesting actually looking at the numbers.

 

[scubatiger]

As an owner of an indoor range in NE Fl, I certainly see all ends of the spectrum, from the very experienced to the absolutely incompetent. We keep RSOs on staff for the safety of all in the range, which provides an added comfort level. What frightens me more than any behavior I see on the range however, and what I haven't seen discussed here, is the ease with which concealed carry permits are issued to virtually anyone who can pass the background check. Can't speak for other states, but in Florida, there is essentially zero firearms competency which must be exhibited to obtain the license. As we have the 'luxury' of having a range in house, we require our students to fire 25-50 rounds at a target and demonstrate at least the bare minimum of competency with a weapon. But there are many gun stores conducting CWL classes that do not have a range and their 'firearms proficiency' demonstration consists literally of capping off 2 .22LR rounds into a bullet catch - period. This is appalling to me not as a range owner, but as a citizen going out in public. If you want to keep a firearm in your home for personal protection and choose not to make yourself proficient in the use of that firearm, the risk is essentially limited to you, your family members and potentially a neighbor. But when you choose to strap on that gun and take it out in public, now you're a potential safety threat to all of the innocent people around you. If you have to use your firearm for personal protection at a shopping mall or other significantly populated venue, now the risk of unintended collateral damage jumps up exponentially. If the only 'training' you've received is to pump 2 rounds at pt blank range into a bullet catch, then you have no business packing heat in public. I'm sure I'm going to get some pushback from the 'constitutional carry' folks, but I believe there should be significantly more training required to obtain a concealed carry permit.

 

[MichaelZWilliamson]

Perhaps that is an unusually small sample. However, as a former Army and law enforcement guy, maybe I'm thinking those of us with training are overrepresented?

I'm not real impressed with most of the military or almost any cop, either. Speaking as someone who's run military ranges.