Why you shouldn't support military fakers in the gun industry

[OWGEM]

I think the American public is mixing up heroism with patriotism. Should someone voluntarily serve in the military I would consider them a patriot, but not necessarily a hero. I am not saying any veteran should receive less respect. I am saying heroes do exist, but not in the numbers the public seem to think. Let's reserve the label hero for Medal of Honor recipients and such.


Before anyone jumps my case, let me say this. I am a veteran from the Vietnam era. In that time those who respected the military kept silent and those who did not were very vocal. The pendulum has swung too far in the other direction in my opinion.


To stay strictly on topic, military pretenders are considered pathetic in my household.

 

[TopDog]

There's no point. All the medals, citations, etc. in the box wouldn't get me a cup of coffee.

Spent twenty-one years in the Army and retired, have a son in law who unfortunatly ddin't make it through Navy Boot Camp due to medical reasons, which one of us is less a veteran, I know what the rules and regulations say, but I am just as proud of his limited service as I am my own, he chose to volunteer, and to serve, so it didn't work out, he tried. I know of many a citizen who have never served, or would have but for some reason couldn't. Good people all, I salute their patriotism, it's the ones that are fakes, who portray themselves as hero's that chap my A$$, there are many PX Generals serving in the military who sport a badge or piece of tin they did or didn't earn. Not many because they are quickly weeded out, but they are there. I received two new and one recurrent medal at my retirement cerimony, they and all the others now turn to dry dust in the attic. After twenty-one years of honorable service, I too have a couple of DD-214's, back in the day, you got one for completing your initial service requirement, then at retirement you got one too, mine is in several pages because it had so much stuff in it, I have a continuation page................who cares? That 214 and fifty three cents gets me a cup of senior coffee here at work each morning. Am I a weapons expert? Hell no, I have seen and served with he best in the business, I have also seen folks who will only die in battle, because they had no clue what to do with the weapon they were issued.

I have met so many men over the years who, when asked about their service (I was once a State Disabled Veterans Representative) (DVOP), have said to me SPECIAL FORCES VIETNAM................turns out only a few actualy were, and they never to a man talked very much about it.

So does military service equate to weapons expertice? Hardly, unless your Military Occupation Specialty (MOS) included it, AND you spent years training others to handle weapons.

Does military service equate to a certin level of Patriotism? maybe, but I also know many who couldn't serve, who are just as patriotic as I am.

"It is what it is", most Veterans develop a BS indicator that works pretty well.

Yeah that about sums it up. Retired MSgt USMC here. A friend was helping me find something one day. He opened the draw in my filing cabinet with my Military stuff. He asked me why I didn't have it all on a wall. I said a love me wall? That stuff only really means something to me and the people I served with. That about sums it up.

 

[ViperJock]

Operators will train for panties? I am soooo in!

I get really tired of hearing mil this and mil that. There are fakers and liars in so many ways. I may thank a vet for their service but I don't swear fealty to them. If they don't deserve the praise it probably makes them feel guilty more than anything. Its not like they really get anything from me since I treat everyone with respect vet or not-- until they prove they don't deserve it.

Its a little sad that people feel the need to embellish their resumes in any way. I'm not gonna make one of these guys one of my besties but I could care less so much that I'm not sure why I am still...

 

[BE Mike]

There's no point. All the medals, citations, etc. in the box wouldn't get me a cup of coffee.

You never know. I took my WWII father to the barber the other day. Being a real barber shop, there is a lot of talk (man gossip). After learning that my dad is a veteran, one of the men (who claimed to get a college deferment during Nam) paid for my father's haircut.

 

[DemolitionMan]

I served in the Army Reserves, primarily in the 80's and 90's and had very little time on AD. When my boys were younger they asked me why I hesitated to call myself a veteran. I explained that I never saw combat and wanted to be sure that those who had got the respect they deserve. I may have been too careful...after that they would tell people "This is my dad. He was a soldier but he never killed anyone."

At least I can count on them to keep me honest.

 

[churchmouse]

I served in the Army Reserves, primarily in the 80's and 90's and had very little time on AD. When my boys were younger they asked me why I hesitated to call myself a veteran. I explained that I never saw combat and wanted to be sure that those who had got the respect they deserve. I may have been too careful...after that they would tell people "This is my dad. He was a soldier but he never killed anyone."

At least I can count on them to keep me honest.

That is true. From the mouths of babes.

Any one who served is a veteran in my eyes. Logistics/supply/transport/ground crews/motor pool.....it does not matter. With out any of those the big show grinds to a stop. If you put in your time, stand tall.

 

[jcwit]

You never know. I took my WWII father to the barber the other day. Being a real barber shop, there is a lot of talk (man gossip). After learning that my dad is a veteran, one of the men (who claimed to get a college deferment during Nam) paid for my father's haircut.

That is for sure. I normally wear a Veteran baseball cap. On a trip to No. Carolina a fellow unknown to me paid for my wife's and I dinner in a restaurant.

Now as far as being a hero, I am far from it, I willingly served but for some unknown reason I was stationed to the Pentagon during the big Viet Nam buildup in 1965. Why?? No idea, BUT I sure didn't run to Canada as many did.

 

[jcwit]

That is true. From the mouths of babes.

Any one who served is a veteran in my eyes. Logistics/supply/transport/ground crews/motor pool.....it does not matter. With out any of those the big show grinds to a stop. If you put in your time, stand tall.

Well there Veteran's, then there are Combat Veteran's.

 

[churchmouse]

Well there Veteran's, then there are Combat Veteran's.

Exactly. But, is you put in your time, you are a veteran in my eyes.
If you put your life on hold and spend the time, that is my point.

 

[singlesix]

I served in the Army Reserves, primarily in the 80's and 90's and had very little time on AD. When my boys were younger they asked me why I hesitated to call myself a veteran. I explained that I never saw combat and wanted to be sure that those who had got the respect they deserve. I may have been too careful...after that they would tell people "This is my dad. He was a soldier but he never killed anyone."

At least I can count on them to keep me honest.

I think about the Vets who served in W.W. II, Korea, Nam, and Iraqi/ Afgan, I served in Desert Storm, it doesn't compare. Maybe why I haven't joined any Vet Organizations.

 

[OWGEM]

I think about the Vets who served in W.W. II, Korea, Nam, and Iraqi/ Afgan, I served in Desert Storm, it doesn't compare. Maybe why I haven't joined any Vet Organizations.

I'm curious why you feel that way? Why don't they compare?

 

[hornadylnl]

I don't own anything that says veteran on it nor will I.

 

[churchmouse]

I don't own anything that says veteran on it nor will I.

Personal choices and I honor them as well.

 

[Que]

I served in the Army Reserves, primarily in the 80's and 90's and had very little time on AD. When my boys were younger they asked me why I hesitated to call myself a veteran. I explained that I never saw combat and wanted to be sure that those who had got the respect they deserve. I may have been too careful...after that they would tell people "This is my dad. He was a soldier but he never killed anyone."

At least I can count on them to keep me honest.

I'm finding this to be a huge problem at work. Many of my students do not identify as veterans because they did no have a combat MOS and/or was never deployed. It's even worse among those with a combat MOS and never deployed.

 

[ratames]

My dad was the same way. he spent over 2 years listening to the Russian and East German artillery practice across the Iron Curtain, but because he never served in combat, he refused to call himself a veteran nor would he accept any GI benefits.

 

[hornadylnl]

I'm finding this to be a huge problem at work. Many of my students do not identify as veterans because they did no have a combat MOS and/or was never deployed. It's even worse among those with a combat MOS and never deployed.

And just why is that a problem? I had a coworker who tried to talk me into getting veteran plates for my vehicle. This was the early days of Afghanistan and Iraq. To the average non veteran, "veteran" equals a person who saw combat. There was no way I was going to put those plates on my vehicles and give someone the impression that I was in Afghanistan or Iraq.

All these hero worshippers can go find someone else to throw their panties at because it ain't going to be me. What is the difference with the WW2 generation where they largely kept it to themselves to the newer generations that are so desperate for a piece of the action that they go around wearing "era" veteran stuff?

 

[Beowulf]

And just why is that a problem? I had a coworker who tried to talk me into getting veteran plates for my vehicle. This was the early days of Afghanistan and Iraq. To the average non veteran, "veteran" equals a person who saw combat. There was no way I was going to put those plates on my vehicles and give someone the impression that I was in Afghanistan or Iraq.

All these hero worshippers can go find someone else to throw their panties at because it ain't going to be me. What is the difference with the WW2 generation where they largely kept it to themselves to the newer generations that are so desperate for a piece of the action that they go around wearing "era" veteran stuff?

People that served, but didn't see combat, shouldn't feel ashamed of calling themselves a veteran. Even during World War 2, we had over 12 million men under arms. Upwards of 40% of the troops deployed were logistical support or HQ/Admin (sometimes more or sometimes less, depending on the unit), not to mention all the people that were stateside, keeping the war machine running. Since World War 2, our percentage of support troops has increased, up to 60% (even higher if you include civilian contractors performing roles that formerly were done by soldiers). All these people do essential jobs that keep the guys fighting. If they weren't there, I don't care how tough and well trained our troops are, they wouldn't make it very far without ammo, fuel, medical support, food, intelligence, etc.

Personally, the way I look at it (not having served myself), if you volunteered to be put in harms way and potentially maimed or killed in service of your country, that means something, whether they stuck a rifle in your hands, a spatula and a potato peeler, or a laptop.

That all being said, if you are someone like me (again, not having served) and you go about lying about your service to get respect/discounts/ladies etc, that's despicable and should be called out.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

My uncle served with an engineering outfit that built pontoon bridges and he froze his feet during the battle of the bulge and almost lost them both. But his older brother was bomber co-pilot in the south pacific and was lost, and I always wondered if the fact that he was never in combat and that his brother was and was killed, was why I never heard him refer to himself as a veteran.

 

[churchmouse]

My uncle served with an engineering outfit that built pontoon bridges and he froze his feet during the battle of the bulge and almost lost them both. But his older brother was bomber co-pilot in the south pacific and was lost, and I always wondered if the fact that he was never in combat and that his brother was and was killed, was why I never heard him refer to himself as a veteran.

So tell me......his sacrifice, near loosing life and limb, loosing his brother..........Does that not make him worthy of the title.

Just asking not trying to be snarky. My uncles never pushed the fact on others. They enjoyed the anonymity but during the Nam there was much hate for those in uniform. Different times.

 

[Que]

And just why is that a problem? I had a coworker who tried to talk me into getting veteran plates for my vehicle. This was the early days of Afghanistan and Iraq. To the average non veteran, "veteran" equals a person who saw combat. There was no way I was going to put those plates on my vehicles and give someone the impression that I was in Afghanistan or Iraq.

All these hero worshippers can go find someone else to throw their panties at because it ain't going to be me. What is the difference with the WW2 generation where they largely kept it to themselves to the newer generations that are so desperate for a piece of the action that they go around wearing "era" veteran stuff?

It's a problem because I want to support veterans on my campus. I didn't say it was their problem, but it is a problem, because no one should see themselves in a lesser light because they didn't earn a tab or deploy seven times.